Silver Foxx

Any word from S.I.??

It would be nice if they could give us their possible views on this very imformative post.

Si BHA

Yes 10/12 is a decent standard at that level. However as I said, the players ability isn't really relevant.

I spoke of having 1 for long shots; well a player could have 20 long shots and still not shoot from distance all the time because he might not like shooting from distance. He may prefer to play a short simple pass!

So I can't see any PPMs being linked to a players ability. Even giving players a PPM based on position is debatable, there's no reason why a defender wouldn't prefer to place his shots etc.

Veg

Class post Ackter!!!

Klimowicz

i see what you're saying, but the debate is about how regens can get PPMs. there are hardly any PPMs in long career games, unless you literally use a player as a "host" for PPMs like i have in the past, and now with Henri Lansbury. i'm just saying that if a 16 year old regen who has a good PA has 15 for passing, he'd reach 20 for passing by 19/21 with good training, if he rejects tutors and wants to "concentrate on developing his own game", why shouldn't he develope PPMs? even regardless of stats? players who don't want to be tutored are doomed to mediocrity.

i don't think anyone can argue with ideas for PPMs for non tutored youth players. even if PPMs aren't linked with stats, they need to appear more often in conjunction with how players are used by the manager, and hopefully more appropreately than my Milan game in fm07, when every new CB in italy had the ability to shoot from distance...

if not based on individual stats or position, whats wrong with a certain combination of coaches attributes, multiple stats & position meaning a young player automatically picks up PPMs? a player with (potentially) high composure, finishing & anticipation could get "tries first time shots" or "places shots" if the technique coach has a high rating for tech & working with youngsters? or a CB with potentially good strength, positioning and tackling stats "does not dive into tackles"?

i hope they're not just thrown into fm09, i'd love to see some of these ideas in it. maybe then i can get past 2015 on an FM game.

out of curiosity, are there many PPMs for players in lower leagues?

arrogantio

The probability of some PPMs developing in young players would be correlated with certain attributes relative to their CA
(although many PPMs are correlated with Flair and Bravery/Aggression which is not closely linked to ability anyway)

Some PPMs are much more correlated with intrinsic abilities than others. There are plenty of players with Long Shots in the low single digits that are still inclined to take them, and many that have great long range stats that aren't particularly likely to take them.
On the other hand, a 15 year old with a Free Kicks of 10 is probably a specialist at his level and it is possible he will have developed the habit of taking them from distance or hitting them with power whilst it is very unlikely that a 15 year old with a free kicks of 2 has developed any such preference.

Similarly, it is probably equally likely that relatively poor and relatively good tacklers will prefer not to dive into them, but quite unlikely that a poor man marker will ever become inclined to attempt to mark their opponent tightly.

michaeltmurrayuk

i see what you're saying, but the debate is about how regens can get PPMs. there are hardly any PPMs in long career games, unless you literally use a player as a "host" for PPMs like i have in the past, and now with Henri Lansbury. i'm just saying that if a 16 year old regen who has a good PA has 15 for passing, he'd reach 20 for passing by 19/21 with good training, if he rejects tutors and wants to "concentrate on developing his own game", why shouldn't he develope PPMs? even regardless of stats? players who don't want to be tutored are doomed to mediocrity.

i don't think anyone can argue with ideas for PPMs for non tutored youth players. even if PPMs aren't linked with stats, they need to appear more often in conjunction with how players are used by the manager, and hopefully more appropreately than my Milan game in fm07, when every new CB in italy had the ability to shoot from distance...

if not based on individual stats or position, whats wrong with a certain combination of coaches attributes, multiple stats & position meaning a young player automatically picks up PPMs? a player with (potentially) high composure, finishing & anticipation could get "tries first time shots" or "places shots" if the technique coach has a high rating for tech & working with youngsters? or a CB with potentially good strength, positioning and tackling stats "does not dive into tackles"?

i hope they're not just thrown into fm09, i'd love to see some of these ideas in it. maybe then i can get past 2015 on an FM game.

out of curiosity, are there many PPMs for players in lower leagues? </BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are getting confused here - PPM's don't determine how well a player can do something, it's something they will naturaly want to do, regardless of whether they can do it or not. For example if a player has tries first time shots, that means more likely he'll shoot more often than not before controlling the ball first, which may be handy if he is a excellent finisher, not all that good if his shots go out for throw-ins. Personally PPM's aren't really something you want your players full of, as they'll do these rather than obey your tactics.

Whilst I feel that some PPM's should be more common (I haven't really noticed any regens having any of the free-kick ones), others we should be able to train out of players - due you really want your left winger to always down the wing, when sometimes cutting inside would be the better option?

We really need some more interaction with the players on the training field and with their personality - say for example if you play a wide formation and want your wingers to hug the touchline, but one has the cuts inside PPM, a way of encourging the player to lose that PPM would be nice (whether he does or not would depend on his personality and mental attributes, and possibly the reputations of you, him and your coaches) or if the player always tries tricks but is useless at them. Alternatively you could try and train a young winger into huging the touchline.

Also if a player with argues with officals or dives into tackles (who cannot tackle) keep on getting sent off, have an option to tell them to calm down (again sucess depends on personality etc, - e.g. Paul Scholes still cannot tackle but it doesn't stop him trying).

When players get older or develop their PPM's should change (appear/disappear) for example Ryan Giggs when he was younger would have run down the left, but now he's older and lost some pace, he should lose it. Or a young player who tried tricks when younger, but wasn't always successful and has now matured (mental atrributes have inceased - decisions, teamwork etc) and now realises tries tricks all the time isn't helpful and should lose it. (Not having a certain PPM doesn't mean they never do that, PPM just mean they'll do that more often than not).

The people complaining about a lack of PPM's are you saying no players have any in your games, or players only have one or two? - as several of my regens each season are generated with PPMs, and I'm also fairly sure that young players can gain them on their own (or I just didn't notice the PPM in the past).

Klimowicz

firstly, no disrespect but i know exactly what a PPM is. granted, i might not have shown that in previous posts. my bad.

i play robin van persie on the right wing or right striker, one of his PPMs is indeed cuts inside, and it logically allows him to get onto his stronger foot and pass or shoot. he puts in more byline crosses when playing on the other side. i need players who can do things like this, any other left footed winger/striker playing on their opposite side can't cross and usually get shown onto their weak foot.

i wouldn't mind if 2 out of 10 of the new youth players had just one relevant PPM, but it's simply not the case in my game. even though my youth facilities at arsenal are now producing highly recommended players for the future, they don't have PPMs unless tutored, which has been hit and miss for me apart from Henri Lansbury.

refering again to my arsenal gamesave, why should a 4* potential rated 15-17 year old AMC who has 13-15 for passing/creativity and other relevant stats not learn how to play killer balls from his technical & attacking youth coach, especially if those aforementioned stats would mean by 22 he would have great overall stats due to my top facilities and coaches?

i do agree with some of your points, though. if players can lose stats with age they should lose PPMs. i also had a giggs example above regarding his positional change.

Ackter

The spread and values of attributes could be used as modifiers to decide how likely a player is to have certain PPMs.

sjm

I think the word you're looking for is "malleable":
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malleable


On topic: this was already an issue a few iterations ago. It's not so much that there aren't any players with PPMs; there are - I got several way back in FM06. The general feeling back then was that there simply weren't enough players being given PPMs and that new players never seemed to have more than one PPM. Conversely a lot of players in the database at the start seemed to have been blessed with a plethora of PPMs (maybe going a bit over the top).

I do think it's a good idea for young players to be able to pick up PPMs as you describe, and that this should be tied to how they are playing. I'd expect a 21 year old player who has spent the last 5 years using similar tactics under the same manager to have settled into some sort of routine regarding how they play (e.g. Arsenal players might get Plays short simple passes whilst Chelsea players get Argues with officials )

Si BHA

I don't understand your comment that they're 'doomed to mediocrity'. As you know, a PPM can be a negative quality to have. I tend to avoid them. If my strikers got an oportunity to score I want him to take the option most likely to be succesful; I don't want him to try to power/curl/lob the ball when his preferred shot type may not be whats needed in that situation.

A player may well play in a certain way for a certain manager in a specific tactic. It doesn't mean he likes to play this way. The manager may be limiting his ability (Why have a Short Passing PPM if he has great passing (20) - you wouldnt be getting the best out of that ability). What I would say/agree with though is if the player plays in this way for a number of seasons, he may well become far more comfortable playing in this way and thus develop a PPM.

I'm not convinced by this. Poor players should still get the PPM's you've mentioned.

As a players ability makes no difference, there shouldn't be any difference between top players and lower league players when PPMs are distributed.