retired_joannalaw

Btw, the inability to edit my own posts is really starting to bug me!

retired_bradp

Since I'm interested in this, I downloaded FMM to check out some reputation things.

I'll check through-out the season and see what I can come up with while I play:

Started in Russian Div 2, with a club with 1000 rep. I just finished my second season, finishing 3rd. I finished 11th in the first season.

Started with Sunday League Experience, i.e.: 1500 (home), 1500 (current), 750 (world). I'm don't have Russian nationality so not coaching in my home country.

After those two seasons, my current rep are 1918, 2426, 1400.

The club rep is now 2743 moving towards the start of the 3rd season.

Some things to note:

1) I saved 4 games before the end of the 2nd season, club rep was 1900ish, my rep was almost identical to postseason although about 20-25 points lower or so (I won the last 4 games of the season so that could account for that according to your description above).

So, club recieves a 800 point rep bumb from finishing 3rd in the league (I was predicted to be 22nd, so this might explain this, i.e. the more you overachieve, the higher increase) while my personal rep barely moved. This could be related to the league itself as well though, might differ from league to league. This disproves your hypothesis 2 and seems to indicate that only results in a game to game basis change manager rep. Technically manager rep could increase later, I'll check into that during next season. Will also try to check when my manager profile updates next time. Any ideas on when it does that?

I'm predicted to finish 15th this season, so after this we can compare the increase to see if its related to predicted position, or relative to your club rep, or set for your positional finish.

2) I've almost doubled my world rep but played only 87 games in total, meaning it has increased by almost 7.5 per game. Given that your tests didn't show much change in world rep, might be something else that effects this. Home rep has increased about 4.8 per game, while current has increased 10.6 per game so similar seem to apply here, i.e. that there is something else that can effect it. League position would seem reasonable, but as mentioned, didn't see it at the end of this season.

Will post if I come up with anything else.

retired_ariana07

Shouldn't reputations of other candidates for the job have some effect on whether or not you get it?

retired_bradp

Yes, I'm quite sure it does as even if your rep is high enough, you may still lose out to someone with higher rep and vice-versa, if you have a very low rep but there are no other applicants I'm sure you can get the job. Would guess it also have something to with the board's stats as well if they are prepared to hire you despite your lower rep.

retired_joannalaw

Interesting ZJ, these numbers seem to support my assumption that Home Rep is for Teams with your own nationality and World rep for all other teams. In comparison my manager has 2629, 2607 and 1266 after 3 seasons in his home country. Note that your world rep has increased more than your home rep, while your current rep has increased even more. My numbers saw a completely different change, Home rep with the biggest increase, then Current and World last. Interesting...


Could you post the reputation of the Russian second division? Strange that your reputation didn't increase from league position. Could you check it again at frequent intervals from just before the last game of the season? There is definitely a boost for winning competitions, as everyone who has won the CL for the first time will tell you, but I'm not quite sure when it happens. Logically it would happen when you got the message telling you how you did. Could be that you have to win, or get promoted, for this to apply to leagues though. My previous testing has shown that reputation doesn't change when your stats update, but if you want to check for yourself it happens at mid season and when the game updates to the next season. About 16 of feb and 16 of aug in my game, if I remember correctly.

retired_joannalaw

Yes, I'm quite sure it does as even if your rep is high enough, you may still lose out to someone with higher rep and vice-versa, if you have a very low rep but there are no other applicants I'm sure you can get the job. Would guess it also have something to with the board's stats as well if they are prepared to hire you despite your lower rep. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it does. The applicant with the highest reputation usually get the job.
But you will not automatically get the job if there are no other applicants.
If your rep is low and there are no other applicants the board will delay giving you an answer. It would make sense for the board to lower their demands the longer it takes to hire a new manager though.

retired_bradp

Where can I find the rep of the Russian Second division?

I've played 6 games into the 3rd season so far, still no increase bigger than what can be explained from just the games itself (around 15 points up in each category). Will keep checking during the season.

Will reload the old game just before the season ends and check if there was any increase but i doubt it. I think you were spot on when you said that you have to win or get promoted to get it though which makes sense from a manager rep perspective. If you get promoted or win people hear more about you than if you just overachieved in the league. Also, there is a massive difference between winning the CL and finishing 3rd in the Russian 2nd div . It's probably as simple as that winning cups etc adds reputation.

Hopefully I'll get promoted this season and we can find out.

retired_joannalaw

Use the Data editor that came with FM. If you play the 8.0.2 database, like I do, it should be 4.

If my preliminary theory is correct, you will get 4 times bigger reputation changes from playing games in your league compared with friendlies.
If this theory holds true it means that it will be much easier to pin the rep change equation, and later to predict the necessary outcome of a match just by knowing the odds and the league reputation. To verify this I would need 2 matches with equal odds, one friendly and one league (or other competition), reported in the way I have described above. Easiest way would be to arrange a friendly with one of your rival teams in the league, at roughly the same time, and match reputation changes for equal results. I will do this myself unless you beat me to it.

retired_bradp

Use the Data editor that came with FM. If you play the 8.0.2 database, like I do, it should be 4.

If my preliminary theory is correct, you will get 4 times bigger reputation changes from playing games in your league compared with friendlies.
If this theory holds true it means that it will be much easier to pin the rep change equation, and later to predict the necessary outcome of a match just by knowing the odds and the league reputation. To verify this I would need 2 matches with equal odds, one friendly and one league (or other competition), reported in the way I have described above. Easiest way would be to arrange a friendly with one of your rival teams in the league, at roughly the same time, and match reputation changes for equal results. I will do this myself unless you beat me to it. </BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry, time for me to go to bed so won't have time to do that

Here is some additional info from me:

1) Yep, on 8.0.2. My nationalities is Swedish/English (just saying that for reference really)

2) Reloaded and checked my rep 4 games before end of season and 4 games into next season. The former was 1905, 2413, 1378 and the latter 1932, 2439, 1430. Club rep went from 1923 to 2750. When I checked just before end of season and just after they announced how I did, there was no change at all. Provides support for the idea that only winning/promotion gives manager rep increase while club gets it based on relative achievement.

To test this, I'll save a couple of games before end of season and try to achieve a variety or results (winner, promotion, 3rd, 4th etc) to check what the club/manager increase in rep is.

3) Played a few friendlies against a mix of teams in the same div and some the div above. Got no or very minor changes in rep out of those games. Never more than 1 point. In the league however I make steady improvement of a few points a game depending on result. They don't come dividable by 4 though, so most likely it give you rep increase in increments (0.8 is rounded up to 1 etc). My league increases of averaging 4.8 to 10ish seems to correspond to your idea that league games are worth 4 times more. Seems to indicate that there is a formula for this, maybe you are on to it with your theory of odds and league reputation. Let me know what you find.

ZJ

retired_joannalaw

Comparing a friendly to a league game

In this experiment I wished to compare a friendly and a league game with the same match odds to see if I could determine just what effect competition reputation plays in the reputation equation. To achieve this I played a friendly against my first league opponent just one week before the season started. Here are the data from the two matches:

Game1

Randaberg (Player, Rep 3025, Home) VS Modum (Player, Rep 2416, away), Friendly game

Player manager1 (Randaberg) reputation: Home: 3250, Current: 3250, World: 1625
Player manager2 (Modum) reputation: Home: 2631, Current: 2609, World: 1266

Match odds: Randaberg: 4-6 (Fav), Draw: 9-4, Modum: 7-2

Randaberg 7-0 Modum, Manager 1: +2,+2, 0. Manager 2: -5,-5,-1.
Randaberg 9-5 Modum, Manager 1: +1,+1, 0. Manager 2: No Change. (Modum 2 red)
Randaberg 5-1 Modum, Manager 1: +3,+3, 0. Manager 2: -2,-2,-1.
Randaberg 6-3 Modum, Manager 1: +1,+1, 0. Manager 2: No Change.
Randaberg 5-4 Modum, Manager 1: No Change Manager 2: No Change.
Randaberg 3-2 Modum, Manager 1: No Change Manager 2: No Change.
Randaberg 2-1 Modum, Manager 1: No Change Manager 2: No Change.
Randaberg 1-0 Modum, Manager 1: No Change Manager 2: No Change.
Randaberg 1-1 Modum, Manager 1: -2,-2,-1. Manager 2: +1,+1, 0.
Randaberg 0-1 Modum, Manager 1: -4,-4,-1. Manager 2: +4,+4, 0.
Randaberg 1-2 Modum, Manager 1: -4,-4,-1. Manager 2: +5,+5, 0.
Randaberg 2-3 Modum, Manager 1: -5,-5,-1. Manager 2: +5,+5, 0.
Randaberg 0-2 Modum, Manager 1: -8,-8,-1. Manager 2: +7,+7, 0.
Randaberg 1-5 Modum, Manager 1: -8,-8,-1. Manager 2: +7,+7, 0.

Game2

Randaberg (Computer, Rep 3025, Home) VS Modum (Player, Rep 2416, away), Norwegian first division (rep 7)

Computer manager1 (Randaberg) reputation: Home: 3236, Current: 3236, World: 1657
Player manager2 (Modum) reputation: Home: 2636, Current: 2614, World: 1266

Match odds: Randaberg: 4-6 (Fav), Draw: 9-4, Modum: 7-2

Randaberg 7-0 Modum, Manager 1: +5,+5,+2. Manager 2:-10,-10,-2.
Randaberg 7-2 Modum, Manager 1: +4,+4,+2. Manager 2: -6,-6,-1.
Randaberg 4-0 Modum, Manager 1: +3,+3,+2. Manager 2: -1,-1,+2.
Randaberg 2-0 Modum, Manager 1: 0, 0,+1. Manager 2: 0, 0,+3.
Randaberg 2-0 Modum, Manager 1: +1,+1,+1. Manager 2: 0, 0,+3.
Randaberg 3-2 Modum, Manager 1: 0, 0,+1. Manager 2: 0, 0,+3.
Randaberg 2-1 Modum, Manager 1: 0, 0,+1. Manager 2: 0, 0,+3.
Randaberg 1-0 Modum, Manager 1: 0, 0, 0. Manager 2: 0, 0,+3.
Randaberg 0-0 Modum, Manager 1: -2,-2,+1. Manager 2: +4,+4,+4.
Randaberg 2-3 Modum, Manager 1: -9,-9, 0. Manager 2: +10,+10,+4.
Randaberg 2-3 Modum, Manager 1:-11,-11,-1.Manager 2: +11,+11,+4.
Randaberg 0-2 Modum, Manager 1:-14,-14,-1.Manager 2: +16,+16,+4.
Randaberg 1-3 Modum, Manager 1:-15,-15,-1.Manager 2: +14,+14,+4.

Notice that the match odds of the two games are equal and that the game is played in the same arena both times, so the only changed factor between these matches are the competition (Friendly, rep 1, VS. Norwegian First Division, rep 7). Competition reputation definitely has an effect, as the reputation changes are significantly bigger in the league game and the limit to the reputation change size is higher. Just how the reputation factors into the equation however is difficult to say. It's not a simple multiplication or addition to the numbers from the friendlies, but simple graph analysis of the numbers do suggest that it multiplies the result in some way. The size of the changes seem to rise exponentially the more unlikely the result, whereas the most likely results see no change from competition rep.
These observations refer to the variables Home and Current rep in this case, World rep is a chapter to itself. As I have noted before world rep can only change negatively from friendlies, and only marginally at that. This does not hold true for league games apparently, it was in fact very difficult for the Modum manager not to increase his world rep, as he had to lose by at least 5 goals not to do so. I will not speculate too much why this is at this point, but it seems like it is enough just to play against a more reputable team to gain reputation. Furthermore it is becoming clearer and clearer that there is another factor in the equation besides Comp rep, goal difference and odds. This factor does not seem to be of critical importance, as it has only accounted for differences of max 2 points so far, but it becomes very difficult to analyze the data until it is identified.