retired_jadcw

you say that the club has an effect on the player, but le tissier was a great player despite not playing european football, never winning the league etc

retired_mienge70

He could arguably have been better given all that though.

I don't get the OP's argument, on the one hand you say you agree with the CA/PA system, then say that players should be able to exceed their PA. It just doesn't make sense for that to happen.

The only possible issue here is that Man Utd and the like should be more capable of spotting talent at an earlier age (high PA) and should have less dross coming through their youth ranks. As pointed out though, even then the majority of their youth players will forge lower league, not premier league careers.

The key thing for me is that no-one ever knows a players 'PA' in real life. It's only an issue in FM if you use any tool to find out what it is, it's meant to be a hidden stat.

deantibbetts

I'm not saying that a small club cannot create a great player, but I think it's safe to say that if Le Tissier had played for Barcelona he would have been an even better player.

retired_fredsgurl

This is why playing the game beyond 2020 sucks because it doesnt reflect the reality.

But this is a video game... expecting a 100% reality simulation is damn near impossible (at least at this time).

There are a lot of great players who come from lesser known clubs. Sure there are great players from small club in FM too, but they wont reach like 195 PA.

Rather off topic, I think we should have different CA/PA for Mental, Technical and Physical attributes imo

deantibbetts

At first I thought that was a good shout, but IMO anyone who takes notice of that much detail in their game wouldn't bother with genie scouts etc and so wouldn't know what the PA/CA's are.

retired_channer06

He obviously has a big greasy sausage and bacon bap on his way to training, A mCdonalds on the way home from training (moaning about them discontinuing supersize meals, has his fatty dinner his mum cooks him (Turkey twizzler's, chips lots of sauce), goes to the chippy on the way round to his mates, gets large fish and chips with plenty of scraps and lots of salt and vinegar......and 3 battered mars bars, has a few games of pro evo at his mates whilst munching a bag of 'broken biscuits', has a few naughty smokes with his mate and gets the munchies, has more scoffs, tub of ice cream. Falls asleep, wakes up hungry, goes downstairs and raids the fridge, mum hasnt been shopping left so he eats the lard.......

.....cycle continues......goes out and gets smashed 4 times a week too.

( :

retired_contor

But their upbringing wasn't PERFECT was it? For it to be perfect they must have played for Man Utd in the EPL and in the UCL.

Maximum exposure + good training + luck with injury = reaching PA.

My main argument is, is it realistic to limit any youngster to a PA of less than 100?

I just think that any youngster, if they received the perfect upbringing would be pretty good, right?

deantibbetts

Well no, I don't agree with that. There has to be an element of natural talent that will differ from player to player and not necessarily take that player above 100 CA/PA.

retired_marcias

Surely that's more to do with natural talent though.

I think we both had this debate before and differed on that occasion :p My suggestion was that players should be less likely to achieve their PA depending on the club they are with, rather than being able to surpass their PA.

I.e. there are two kevin Nolans both with PA of 180, the one playing for Man Utd, winning champuionships, making internaitonal appearances and playing in Europe should have the ability to achieve his full PA. The other still at Bolton would have a cap on his ability to achieve full PA because of the level of football he is playing and the lack of progression etc.

Beign able to surpass PA is maybe not the way to go. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm definitely of the opinion that PA is not ideal, but I disagree with the original point about basically anyone training with Manchester United having the potential to become world class.

I always find it frustrating that the PA of your players is set in stone at the moment they exit your youth team and move into your U19s. I don't use 3rd party programmes so I don't know what any of these PAs are, but it is still disheartening to know that probably all your summer's young players are already doomed to failure whatever you do with them because they all have very low PA

Progression of CA up towards PA is obviously the issue, but is an extremely difficult thing to get right when mixing all the various inputs to that equation.

Funny you should pick my favourite (English) player for your example though! I like to believe that a player at Bolton could progress to his maximum potential, but I guess you are right that training with higher calibre players day in day out and maybe better coaches can make a big difference. I think it may well do in FM already though, just not to that extent. I've had players who seem to have peaked at my club, then they go on to a "bigger" club and suddenly develop further

retired_ajcace

I've long thought PA was just a flawed, and false, system.

Progression should be more natural, and should happen organically:
The better a player is playing in matches the more he should progress. This particularly.
The harder he is working in training the more he should progress.
The better the coaching/facilities he is getting the more he should progress.

So we have two players. Both start with identical stats.
One is a Striker for Middlesbrough. He's driven, a hard working model professional. And he's kicking ass in the Premiership, and scoring plenty of goals.
One is a striker for Man U. He's relaxed, undetermined, and a little bit lazy. He's not getting into his Man U squad much, except domestic cup matches. And he's playing poorly.

The Boro lad should improve a LOT.
The Man U lad should improve none or little.

Clubs would then go after the Boro lad, while the Man U lad rots into obscurity.

As above WHY DO WE NEED PA?...

----------------------
It's always annoyed me when I've had a striker performing at the very top level in the top leagues in Europe and HE DOES NOT IMPROVE. While some donkey elsewhere is shooting up, while doing nothing, because he's got a 180 PA.

This way also personalities and determination would be a major factor, like they are in real life. And we'd see an end to players with awesome stats and a 1 determination. Personalities would *actually mean something*.