JohnShaft

I've got posts taling about the problems with them in FM06. So that's at least 3 iterations of FM.

My guess is they go back another year, maybe more. But I lost my old account in '05 and it's hard to find stuff from then otherwise.

Either way 3/4 iterations should be more than enogh to deal with things like:
"Top/World class" CB's with 10-12 jumping/pace combos. That should just NEVER happen, at minimum they should be Puyol level (and he's 13/18). Otherwise they are simply poor/average players, I don't care if they've got 190 PA, 20 tackling.
What's Drogba, Henry, Eto'o, et al with 10 Pace/Jumping?

I can't tell you how many of these hobbits my strikers have owned all over the pitch, because it's made worse by the CPU being oblivios to their terrible flaws.
What's worse this EXACT issue has always been there.


Dave you sound like a good guy, and I'm not here to butt heads. But I find I don't have the longest fuse on this issue because to me it is one that is very detrimental to career games, recurrent, and something a lot of people are willing to ignore (seemingly that includes SI).

I am not.

Tom Leeburn

it has been clear for years that si seem more interested in the quick buck, guys who play the game for a couple of seasons with chelsea etc, than they are in their loyal hardcore fans - those who are more likely to have long term career games.

they clearly never test the game for more than a few seasons, as the problems with regens are so glaring they are unbelievable.

Tom Leeburn

Ok here is a pretty clear example of how poor the regens are.

I am in 2022.

a search for players with acc, pace, jumping and heading of 16 reveals only 1 players!! a fairly mediocre striker.

a search for players with acc + pace = 19 reveals only two players! (neither of whom is any good) if i knock it down to q8 it reveals only 18 players - again none of whom are decent. this is truly shocking.

the blatent lack of testing for long term career games, shows a complete lack of regard for hardcore fans/gamers.

Tom Leeburn

talking about wasted attributes, several of the worlds fastest footballers in 2022 are goalkeepers - now that is utterly pointless!

DaveRH

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I'm not saying that the problem didn't exist before, just that the current system for creating regens and developing them is relatively new.

We're not butting heads. Rather we're having a discussion about an issue we both feel strongly about. We're approaching it in different ways but we both want the same thing.

How's about this for an idea:

Instead of manually coding a development system, why not create code that creates a series of templates when we initially set up the game.

Essentially - the system looks at the top 100 (or how ever many) players in each position (ordered by current ability) and then builds a template based on their current stats compared to a '10 year old' - a blank regen with 1's in all positions.

This template describes the development curves with a high standard of training in all attributes required to bring the player to the equivilant abilities at the equivilant age.

When a regen is created it is automatically assigned a development template from that list and then progresses according to that.

A method like this *should* keep regens on a par with the content of the database at the start of the game - at the expense of taking longer to generate the initial game in the first place.

JohnShaft

See that's it right there. I love that idea. It's the fact that things like this aren't being used that irks me so.

I really think SI should be using the existing database to model players on.

I don't know if you mean this, but it could also be used to create types of players relative to their position. We have a number of templates, something akin to XML.

Pacy Striker (young Owen, Eto'o, Martins, et al)
Target Man (Shearer, Caracciolo, Klose)

You could literally have these templates break down into a dozen or more per position. This way players would actually fit a mold of that type of player, rather than having random and often very similar attributes to each other. We use that mold to create the player at his beginning.

As is a pacy striker has high pace (and maybe acc.) and they don't reflect attributes other pacy players tend to have at all, they're just labelled that because they have speed. They should generally have higher OTB, composure, finishing - lower jumping, strength, heading. And it could extend to PPM's generated at their "birth" too, meaning more chance of "Likes to beat offside trap", less "Stands with back to goal".

---------------

In short there's a good number of smart FM posters who I'd trust more to come up with a viable solution to this than SI. And that just has to be wrong. I'm actually really curious what happens with the release of '09, and if we'll all be in the same boat all over again. History suggests yes.

Frank Dashwood

Just been reading the other thread on this subject - http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...7562069404/p/2

And it looks like a lot of us agree that something needs to be done to tweak regens, just in case you missed it i'd recommend going there and reading arrogantio's post halfway down p2. He sums up a lot of what i think are the key problems and has some good suggestions on how to implement templates for regens. The more I read on the concept of regen templates, the more i like the idea :thup:

Unfortunately tho my pessimistic nature makes me think that we will indeed be in the same situation when 09 rolls around

DaveRH

I'll repeat something I said earlier in the thread - we don't know what's there already.

Take my 'tempate-from-database' idea - it sounds very simply but the maths is actually really quite complicated and we haven't factored in things like coaches and academies yet.

Throwing ideas out there to try to make the game better will always work out better than slating the development team.

pelicanstuff

I believe that player positions should be generated after the starting attributes to suit them, with a small random element thrown in (you do occasionally get defenders who are ferocious finishers, for instance).

DaveRH

I would actually not - I'd expand my 'starting players template' idea to include the positions and simply apply that to regens as they are created.

So the process would go something like:

Generate regen for club

Apply template (gives position and stat increase distribution)

Assign starting CA and PA - as determined by scouting knowledge/coaching facilities

Increase the stats of the player up from 10 years (CA 0) old to his actual starting age (Starting CA)

Insert player into youth squad

Move to next player