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Old 06-04-2008, 08:56 PM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #51
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Not sure i agree with a lot of what has been written here - that's not to say i don't think there's a problem.

1/ I firmly believe the PA of regens is fine - we can't expect 5 regens with 170+ PA in every team (or even every big team) as it just isn't realistic. One 107+PA player every other year (or every third year) for the biggest clubs in the world is fine - scouts can be used to pick up the rest.

2/ World wide the number of high PA regens is almost perfect - i'm running around 10 nations, and have had 3 190+ PA, 5-8 180+, and around 25 170+ appear in europe alone - these numbers seem acceptable to me, as not all of these players come close to their PA. This is the average number, some years i've had as many as 6 190+ regens (of which my scouts found 5 - they deserved bonuses that year!) whilst other years there has been very little in the way of decent players. All things considered PA is not a problem.

3/ The most significant problem is CA. Wonderkids just don't exist. (well i've had 1 in 20years...) Regens tend to have too low aCA, or reach a passable CA too late - this means they don't become first team worthy until they are 25 - by which time they are more often than not "seeking a new challenge" - even though by this time i've loaned then all over the world. Similarly international teams get clogged up with slow 31 year olds as they still manage to have a higher CA than their younger replacements.

Bojans, messis and rooneys just cannot exist when CA develops so slowly - this IMO is the area that needs most work.

4/ The other problem is physical development. This is particularly relevant when looking at GKs. n my current save, there are 3 GKs IN THE WORLD with >15 agility. Ditto jumping. This creates an appaling knock-on as the number of goals scored has rocketed - my top striker has 15 goals in the first 6 games....

Thankfully after reporting this in the bugs forum SI siad they were looking at it.

Similarly other players physical stats are woeful. They just don't seem to develop correctly at all - there are some players with decent stats, but they are the minority.

5/ Players just aren't well rounded enough. The vast majority of regens have glaring flaws. There are currently only 2 perfectly rounded regens that i've found (one of which is my son, so i'm quite chuffed about that ) the rest tend to have either one vital technical stat in single figures or one or more physical stat that is far too low.

I'm not referring to 150CA players here, that i could accept, however i have a regen with 190+CA whi has only 2 passable physical stats and 3 technical stats above 10...the reason for this one is that he's two footed, but it's a consistent trend with single footed players - defenders who have no strength, wingers with 20 pace but 4 acceleration, whole teams that can't jump...the list goes on - now i'm all for players developing into individuals, we don't want everyone the same after all, however they are just too different from each other - a 180+CA CB or CF or CM etc will generally have decent stats in most areas, this just doesn't happen with regens.

I can post screenshots of any examples if people need them, but anyone who plays thee game for 20+ years will soon see that it gets very daft.

6/ Pat on the back if you've read this far, i'll shut up soon. The major knock on effect of the regen poblem is that the game becomes FAR too easy.

E.g. the AI sees a player with 190CA, and thinks "yippee i'll have a world class team now" - when in reality the player is badly flawed and any human can easily avoid such mistakes - repeat this event over a decade and the result isn't pretty.

In short, my team consists of well rounded players with excellent physical and technical stats appropriate for their position and tactics.

The AI teams consist of whichever high CA players they could get their hands on, with a bunch of 120CA players as they NEVER fill every gap created. In FM07 this worked, as the regens were if anything a little too good (although i personally liked it) and they also were well rounded (in general) however it is now the case that the AI buys players and must be scratching it's head as to why they are awful.

I don't expect the AI to consider individual stats - just going off CA is acceptable in order to make the game run quickly - however, regens need to work in order for the game to remain playable.

In the last 3 seasons the only points i've dropped were 4 draws - it just isn't fun anymore, the AI teams are just too incompotent to amke the game any sort of challenge. As i've said previously, the quality of GKs in particular is causing any half decent striker to get 30+ goals in a premier league season.

Sorry if this all sounded negative, but i feel SI have a quite severe problem here, i can only hope that it gets sorted for 09, and i have full faith that it will be. But as it stands, i just can't play my save anymore, i either have to buy poor players, or win every game....it just gets dull.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:01 PM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #52
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Doh, clearly i meant 170+PA rather than 107+PA, why can't i type!
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:14 PM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #53
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Ched, I agree with almost everything you say. Particularly the comments about AI teams becoming too easy to beat in the future. In my Gateshead save (2025) the main problem is with wingers. The AI teams have some technically fantastic wingers with 20's for dribbling, crossing, passing, shooting etc, but they're all completely ruined by having less then 8 in almost all of their physical attributes. Because of this they tend to be pretty useless against you.

The only part of your post I slightly disagree with is this bit:

Quote:
1/ I firmly believe the PA of regens is fine - we can't expect 5 regens with 170+ PA in every team (or even every big team) as it just isn't realistic. One 107+PA player every other year (or every third year) for the biggest clubs in the world is fine - scouts can be used to pick up the rest.
I agree that every team shouldn't be producing 5 top quality players every season but what I'd personally like to see is more high PA regens being created but at the same time I'd like to see the development of players become a lot more varied and be affected by a lot more factors. So the end result is that you get the same number of top quality players you do now, but that's because not all of the 170+ PA players have reached their potential.

But I guess then you're getting into changes in the development model, which is best kept for a different thread

The only other thing I'd like to add to your list of issues (I know I've already mentioned it) is the lack of PPM's around in long term games. Have you found this to be a problem as well Ched? Or anyone else who's playing long term games for that matter. Or is this just something that's affected me?
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:29 PM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by chopper99:
Ched, I agree with almost everything you say. Particularly the comments about AI teams becoming too easy to beat in the future. In my Gateshead save (2025) the main problem is with wingers. The AI teams have some technically fantastic wingers with 20's for dribbling, crossing, passing, shooting etc, but they're all completely ruined by having less then 8 in almost all of their physical attributes. Because of this they tend to be pretty useless against you.

The only part of your post I slightly disagree with is this bit:

<BLOCKQUOTE>1/ I firmly believe the PA of regens is fine - we can't expect 5 regens with 170+ PA in every team (or even every big team) as it just isn't realistic. One 107+PA player every other year (or every third year) for the biggest clubs in the world is fine - scouts can be used to pick up the rest.
I agree that every team shouldn't be producing 5 top quality players every season but what I'd personally like to see is more high PA regens being created but at the same time I'd like to see the development of players become a lot more varied and be affected by a lot more factors. So the end result is that you get the same number of top quality players you do now, but that's because not all of the 170+ PA players have reached their potential.

But I guess then you're getting into changes in the development model, which is best kept for a different thread

The only other thing I'd like to add to your list of issues (I know I've already mentioned it) is the lack of PPM's around in long term games. Have you found this to be a problem as well Ched? Or anyone else who's playing long term games for that matter. Or is this just something that's affected me? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point - although i'd consider it more of a different approach to youth rather than a problem with the current set up.

Some time ago i saw a thread along the lines of this - basically it argued that development was too rigid, and that players should have a generally higher PA, but reach it less frequently - therefore creating the likes of "the next maradona" - the sort of wonder kids who have tons of PA but never make it; aimar, saviola, d'allesandro et al. Good players, but never lived up to their potential.

I agree with you that this is the direction SI should be looking, and fully hope that the game gets there at some point.

Oh yes, PPMs are something of an endangered species in the future. Regens just don't have them, unless they've been trained by an existing player, which means by about 2020 they are barely existent.

Not sure how SI could add them though - a 15 year old with PPMs would be daft, amybe they could generate as part of your tactics/player personality, e.g:

1/ a player with flair 18+ has a 30% chance of developing the "tries tricks" PPM

2/ a player with long shots 15+ has a 15% chance of developing "hits shots with power" PPM

3/ a temperamental player has a 20% chance of developing the "argues with officials" PPM

4/ if when the player is 17-21 he plays in a tactic that consistently uses "long shots = often" then he may develop the "tries long shots" PPM.

5/ similarly if during his developing years, a player plays with "forward runs = Often" then perhaps he could develop the "gets forward whenever possible".

Basically what i'm saying is it is most definitely flawed as it stands - they just don't exist any more, but what i don't want is random PPMs with new regens - ideally i would like to see PPMs develop fomr player or tactical traits - that way you could leave a mark on how the player develops - adding yet more depth to the game.

That said, this isn't going to make it to FM09 and i suspect it would require a large amount of work so i'm not going to hold my breath...
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:40 PM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #55
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Anyone in the know;

Is it at all possible to get a regenerated player at CA195+ after how ever many years?

Thanks.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:46 PM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Burscoughnian:
Anyone in the know;

Is it at all possible to get a regenerated player at CA195+ after how ever many years?

Thanks.
if you really mean CA, then no - no young player would start with a Current Ability so high.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:50 PM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #57
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Sorry, no. I mean is it possible for regen players, at whatever age, to ever reach the top of the scale for Current Ability?

Assuming that they had a PA of 195+ or so, when they were spawned.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:51 PM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Burscoughnian:
Anyone in the know;

Is it at all possible to get a regenerated player at CA195+ after how ever many years?

Thanks.
Regen quality is random - you can get a 195 regen the first time you load (if you start in england, the date for spanish regen spawning is a week or two in) or you might have to wait 10 years - it is entirely random.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:30 AM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Burscoughnian:
Sorry, no. I mean is it possible for regen players, at whatever age, to ever reach the top of the scale for Current Ability?

Assuming that they had a PA of 195+ or so, when they were spawned.
I'm busy trying to do so. I have a regen with CA/PA 136/181 or something - I might increase his PA to 200 some time to see how far he can get. His age is 17 and I think he is in a very good position to at least hit 170-180.
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:03 AM   Regen Quality = attrocious Post #60
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I think it depends on the size of the database too. I'm playing on small right now (I've only found 3 decent players so far - 2014) but I imagine if I played on large it would be a different story.
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