Regen Quality = attrocious

retired_spellkast · 06-25-2008, 05:59 AM

can you imagine ian dowie starting out with a pa of 200

. thats where the idea would fall down abit.

retired_lbils · 06-25-2008, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rickooko:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by arrogantio:

For example, a youngster with jumping of 4 will not develop a jumping of 11+ no matter how high their potential. Players who can't fulfil the basic positional requirement of wining headers regularly cannot be considered world class central defenders;

therefore regens with the potential to be world class natural DCs ought to have a minimum jumping, which would be higher than that of players with a similar CA but lower PA.
The idea of a high PA is that the player has the ability to excel in their position

, and there are certain crippling weaknesses that can't be adequately compensated for by a general increase in attributes along a relatively linear development scale

Exactly, but would SI ever improve the regen like this?? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, regens do improve physical stats quite a lot when young, as they haven't finished developing physically.

There will be really good defenders IRL who are just too short to make it at the top level as well.

retired_srflowers2002 · 06-25-2008, 06:51 AM

But there are far too many defenders, for example, born with very low jumping such as 6-, which can no way improve into a decent players.

retired_kagilfilen · 06-25-2008, 07:42 AM

Is it possible to improve the standards of regens potential via the database editor?

So that if someone made a new updated database they could improve the quality of the regens aswell as include new transfers ect?

retired_petroae · 06-25-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Leeburn:
excellent post - reasonably inflexible templates for player types is deffinately a good idea. seeing DC's who clearly have decent potential - yet have poor key defending attributes because their CA is used giving them 20 for crossing or corners is my KEY annoyance with this shoddy regen system. This will happen incredibly rarely in reality - big tall centrebacks will spend their career trying to head the ball in the back of the net from a corner, not taking the bloody thing.

i like your idea of giving high pa players a minimum for certain key attributes - i would say for a dc jumping of at least 13 is a minimum for a top class player. (that is just to allow for the odd continental short-arse like puyol!)
all centrebacks with a PA OF 140 or more should start life with jumping of at least 10, to give them any chance of making it as a player.

Don't think that's quite right, there's a research thread (don't have the link to hand) in the Tactics and Training forum which suggests certain attributes cost less CA depending on position, and some are free (ie. don't take up CA), for instance, finishing is "free" for defenders and tackling is "free" for strikers, etc.
IIRC, all set piece attributes are free for all positions.

retired_ajcace · 06-25-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

So a total of 3 regens in a 26 man squad, 11 years into the game. Disgraceful.

I couldn't agree more, it is disgraceful. After like 5 years of newgen work.

There's three "regens are still ****ed" threads at the top of the board. Year in year out the more things change the more they stay the same.

What doesn't help (if anything can) is those waving the "it doesn't matter they're not realistc because everyone is in the same boat" flag.

retired_lbils · 06-25-2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rickooko:
But there are far too many defenders, for example, born with very low jumping such as 6-, which can no way improve into a decent players.

I suppose it's country specific as well, it wouldn't be as big a deal in, say, spain as in england. I suppose in countries with a more physical game, it would make sense to have more jumping = higher chance of being a defender.

In fact, for outfield players they probably should generate the player and then assign position based on attributes. It shouldn't be the optimal position all the time, but there should be certain things that swing it.

Ap0c · 06-25-2008, 11:27 AM

I am in 2020 right now and I agree with most that has been said.

Yes, Physical attributes are lacking, I have checked for 20 pace, and not one player pops up. When checking for strength, it's usually not regens the young guys who started at the beginning such as Victor Moses.

I can also say that wonderkids are really rare, I've seen only 1 regen wonderkid so far.

However, whats this ******** about players not developing? Yes, they start with low CA, but if you have the world class facilities the regens will be way on their way to peaking at 27-28.

The thing that needs to be addressed is the whole starting CA for young regens. There should be at least one really good player popping up somewhere around the world (well, mostly coming from a good youth academy, but it'd be quite interesting if there every now and then a really high CA player comes from an obscure place.

retired_keithfit1 · 06-26-2008, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrogantio:
This thread conflates three different issues

i) CA/PA of regens
the latter is superbly balanced, but starting CA is perhaps not variable enough, hence relatively few wonderkids

ii) development speed of players
which is somewhat slow and even, hence relatively few wonderkids

iii) distribution of CA amongst regens which needs quite a bit of work, including (a) putting hard caps and minimums for some positions and/or hard templates for multiple types of player that occupy a certain position
-e.g no DCs are good crossers unless they are exceptional technical all rounders or trained to at least competent at fullback.
(b) factoring in explicit links between attributes
-e.g the regens I've seen don't always seem to adequately reflect that it is almost certain that a player who can cross well and take free kicks will be a more than adequate good corner taker, reasonably likely that a player skilled at crossing or free kicks will be average or better at corners, highly unlikely that a player who can neither cross nor strike a free kick will be any more than pitiful at taking corners)
(c) explicitly linking starting attributes to PA - players with relatively high potential ability ought to have a distribution of attributes which permits a relatively optimal allocation of attributes at their peak assuming a normal development curve.
For example, a youngster with jumping of 4 will not develop a jumping of 11+ no matter how high their potential. Players who can't fulfil the basic positional requirement of wining headers regularly cannot be considered world class central defenders; therefore regens with the potential to be world class natural DCs ought to have a minimum jumping, which would be higher than that of players with a similar CA but lower PA.
The idea of a high PA is that the player has the ability to excel in their position, and there are certain crippling weaknesses that can't be adequately compensated for by a general increase in attributes along a relatively linear development scale

Wow this post is so good it needs to be quoted again, and implemented in FM 09

retired_Ishmael Lamptey · 07-03-2008, 07:21 AM

I also think regens' attributes should be nation specific. Brazilians should have generally higher technical attributes, British generally phsyically stronger, and so forth.

Regen Quality = attrocious

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Regen Quality = attrocious