niktheblade1

I was thinking about the common answer on this forum in relation to some of the problems encountered by some of us.

One of the more common problems we encounter in general is the amount of goals scored/not scored in relation to the amount of shots on target produced in a game.

I have posted about both issues and love the game so much that I'm beginning to live with the idea and thankfully in 8.0.2, I've found that the "issues" are toned down somewhat, although I do acknowledge that some people still have problems.

I have noticed that a lot of people reply with the old chestnut "its your tactics" which in the above case, I don't think rings true.

For example, the tactical side of FM, as we know is slider based, which is an excellent way of representing tactics, but I don't think you can marry the tactical system of FM to the lack of goals actually being scored/conceded.

My thoughts are, comparing the game to real life as it is a sim, That for example, IRL Billy Sharp can't score in a brothel at the moment, but Blackwell must not be thinking to himself, "hmm I should play more direct counter attacking football to make Billy score, rather than slow tempo passing football" despite the fact that this style would create the same amount of chances as does altering tactics in FM.

Now, Blackwell also can't be thinking to himself "We should get billy, as an individual to play with a more attacking mentality to allow him to score more goals" again despite the fact that he would still get as many chances as when the tactics weren't changed.

The point I'm trying to get at is that creating 8 shots on goal and scoring 0, shouldn't be tactical in the sense that playing a different style of football and creating the same chances would result in say scoring 2 or 3 from those 8 chances.

Creating the chances is the tactical side of the game, hitting the back of the net is more about an individual's ability and is clearly the difference between playing in League 2 and playing in the Premiership.

I think defence wise, the tactical element is more realistic, because defensive tactics are the difference between conceding 4 and conceeding 0 and in this sense, tactics can be combined with individual ability to create a strong defense

Should we accept, given the above that the shots/goals element of the game is fundamentally flawed, or is it still all to do with tactics?

Does anyone agree or have any comments to the contrary?

backpackant

Agree to a degree.

I have been in the "It's your tactics" camp for some time because the shots-to-goal ratio seemed to be down to SI responding to "too many goals scored" complaint in earlier releases. In a sim game where you are having 20 shots to their 1, this was really representing a team that has dug in and is stopping you from scoring rather than a poor day at the office for the striker. You needed a lot of highlights to stop the FM gamer getting bored.

It was a quick-fix that saw GKs playing better than their stats suggest and STs playing worse, a statistic that was driver FM gamers crazy, not ST bugs.

So far as I can tell, the reason it's down to tactics is that the AI will respond accordingly, as the sim team are competing against you based on your CURRENT tactics, and often on the tactics used on your previous game - which they scouted. Changes to this creates more chances as the opposition doesn't have as much time to react.

The other thing that helped was a good half-time team talk.

I can see why it was frustrating, but the ways round it are numerous.

Besides, with 8.0.2 the opposite seems to be true - too many goals.

DaveRH

I read somewhere that the tempo of your play would help define how difficult a chance is to take. If that's true (or other possibilities such as your mentality example above) then I would say that the flaw lies there - especially with one-on-ones with the ball at a strikers feet.

Of course, if it's not true then ignore the above!

Mentality, tempo and passing style will have a bearing on the type of chances the strikers get though - especially in situations where the striker is trying to hit a ball with one touch (i.e. volley or header).

In this case I'd expect factors such as the pace, height and incoming angle of the ball, the concentration and composure of the striker (especially in the case of a defense closing someone down) to be large influences.

niktheblade1

I see what you are getting at with this one, but I think that to show a team that has dug in, I would probably expect to see them winning more headers and tackles etc rather than them seemingly being easily broken down, only for their 'keeper to stop you scoring or your striker to look rubbish?

I totally agree with the highlights comments because my point above would result in my team having very few shots if the opposition defended well, resulting in very few highlights, this would be especially noticeable in LLM. I personally wouldn't mind seeing less highlights because I prefer the realism, but SI have made a game to entertain which a lot of people prefer.

backpackant

I do think you're right, but this would then bring complaints from gamers about "boring" highlights and not enough goalmouth action. If you saw the Liverpool-Barnsley match, a lot of the tackling was on the edge of the area, which made for a thrilling game but would appear dull and uneventful on the AI.

Matches like this are rare, but although Liverpool had plenty of shots and possession, they still lost. One of the "bug" games.

Last night's action against Millan was another example, but in this case it worked. With Milan digging in for a draw, Raffa changed some personnel but more importantly tempo and tactics, and Kuyt scored, as did Gerrard, two players on from the beginning of the match.

hammersjj

I Don't post much on here so please be gentle lol.
First I have no real problem with the game, sure some of the matches are frustrating but I have enjoyed playing it. However the 'it's your tactics' answer that a lot of people use to shoot down problems with the game doesn't ring true to me.

Surely the point is as SI now sell this as a simulation (to my mind where there problems all started) and as such it should be able to cope with whatever is thrown at it. As the whole point of he tactical side of the game is to develop a tactic surely the game should be up to dealing with whatever we come up with.

When people dismiss problem as 'it's your tactic' the reply should be 'Maybe but it shouldn't be'.

niktheblade1

:thup:

nail, head, hit, the, you've, on!!!!

I agree that tactics play a large part in the outcome of many matches IRL and on FM, but in some circumstances on FM, they shouldn't really?

for example, if a striker misses 6 chances, he should get a poor match rating because he has had a bad game, I don't think tactics can be blamed.

backpackant

Agree, but again to a degree.

The shots on target statistic shouldn't have been so high, but:

Change of pace in a real game can open up chances, change the NATURE of the chances, allow STs more time on the ball (eg, maybe the defence is off marking a winger or att mid), or maybe the ST needs a faster pace to the game. Look at the Liverpool-Milan match again - Kuyt had a few chances which he snatched at and screws wide or over, but when the tactics switched he had time to chest it down and score the goal. All because the tactics changed.

Perhaps the shots-on-target shouldn't have been so high, maybe there should have been more "off-target" shots, but there will never be a solution to please everyone.

Nomis07

I think a majority of complaining has come from people who want to see FIFA and Pro Evo 10-0 scorelines because they have the best team in the world. This has then led to the problem being blown out of all proportions and led to shouts of "bug, bug".

The highlights system has to keep the watcher excited but at the same time has to have an element of real football feel about it. Many matches we watch have few goalmouth highlights but can be exciting to watch because of lovely flowing football, the highlights sytem of the gam trying to icorporate this would be quite hard i'm sure, especially given one mans lovely football is another mans hated style. For people who watch only commentary this isn't an issue but I would suggest a majority of people on these forums would watch the highlights and a majority would also switch off, if 75 mins in they have had only 2 highlights one of which was a goal, yet this is part and parcel of every league worldwide.

SI have to keep the game enetertaining but they also have to keep it realistic and given the demanding mnature of the SI punter this is probably impossible. The shot/goals ratio is the same IRL, Man Utd beat Arsenal 4-0 at the wekend but didn't have a dozen chances, they lost to West Ham and Bolton earlier this season with far more chances but far fewer goals. It's football and it's unpredictable.

Getting back to the initial topic of tactics being the problem, I would say they more than likely are in most cases. I've witnessed the shot/goal ratio "bug" but have enjoyed continued success in each of my saves. A lot of people who complain about the "bug" are also people who have struggled to beat Derby as Arsenal etc etc and this is very obviously down to their tactics because many of us have, but for a few one offs, never performed so badly as a high profile team.

I think probably the thing that irritates me most of all on these forums is people going on about how they don't think the game is realistic and is really annoying them because their Southend team just got beaten in the European Cup Final despite having 20 shots on target. This is a game where players can take their local park team to the pinacle of club football, but they also want it to stay realistic otherwise?!?!

I'm all for a bug free game, but i'm also all for a relaistic game where I don't see high scoring games every day and go on 200 game unbeaten runs. I love getting beaten by a smaller team and the ability of this game to get me to jump out of my seat when my striker misses a sitter is as close to watching a game IRL as possible.

niktheblade1

I think we have just proven how complicated this would be to get it spot on, If it was changed, as you have said I can't see how everyone would be satisfied?