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IMO, it'd be better, stuff you wrote to be part of preparation for team's next match-> basicly it coud be a new motivating feature. I'm sure real life managers don't wait till match begins, to prepare their team. what you wrote, it could also be exellant combination to whole motivating aspect for your next match. for example: you prepare your team for whole week in "give each other options" spirit and you can say to your players before match "just stick to what we said and we can win this one", or "just stick to our plan but be relaxed, pressur's off".
otherwise I would like to see effect of team talks reduced, so one team couldn't be able to make a miracle 4 goal comeback just becouse someone said something. I don't believe any "jung or freud" could have such a power, if you know what I mean. motivating is realy important aspect of any (team) sport, but team talks defenetly aren't the most important one. motivating is a process, it lasts, sometimes might take years for sucsess. coaches talk to their players on dayly basis, it's not just team talks. but as I said, the effect of motivating is important, but so are player/team quality, your tactics, form, luck...
I particularly like Dave C's "Tone" idea - I think that would add a lot, along with other items.
In that case, the little window I'm imagining which puts your current selections into a bit more detailed English for your understanding becomes more important.
So, for example, looking back at some of my items, let's say its full-time on a match that we won 2-1, and I select the "Less Mistakes" option.
Then I select from "Tone", and I might get the following shown as the blended team talks:
Happy: Well done, lads! We made great decisions today - avoiding mistakes was key to that win!
Encourage: We made better decisions today, and avoided making crucial mistakes. Let's keep it up next week.
Satisfied: We may have won this, lads, but we've got to make better decisions and take care of the ball.
Dissatisfied: We won this, but I'm not happy with your play. I saw altogether too many mistakes. We've got to take care of the ball!
Angry: I can't believe your play! We made so many mistakes I can't even count them! You're lucky you won!
The idea I had was, why not have team-talks that feed directly into players' mental attributes? To couch it in "gamey" terms, you might almost have talks that give each player a 1- or 2- point attribute boost in specific mental attributes, as a result of what you told them.
I always assumed this was how it worked but applied to all attributes, not just mental ones. My theory on it is that players’ visible attributes are the maximum possible as interpreted by the match engine (ignoring the random element for simplicity). This maximum is modified in the match engine at every calculation point based on:-
1. Morale
2. Condition
3. Positional rating
Then selecting different team talks affects morale (this being the reason it shown along side the team talk option) which in turn affects performance due to it acting as a modifier of attributes prior to these values being inputted into a calculation for a given match scenario. I think motivation and pressure effects are conveyed via morale using team talks. Of course there’s a good chance I’m wrong but it seems like a logical way to implement it. It also explains how team qualities can appear to get reversed after half time (The ‘I have the best team in the league yet after half time a team fighting relegation suddenly looked like Brazil 1970 while my players looked like a pub team’ scenario).
Quote:
originally posted by Amaroq:-
…team talks affecting specific attributes and personalities
…manager personality, team talks and player development
…feedback issues
I like the idea of focused team talks that affect specific attributes and as you said there definitely should be limitations based on players’ natural inclinations and behaviours.
Your point about the link between team talks, manager personality and squad personality is in my opinion one area of FM that is severely lacking. I can’t as a manager mould a team in my own image. I understand not being able to have much impact on more mature players, but it would be nice if our virtual personalities impacted on how our youngsters developed rather than having to use other players as a proxy within the current tutoring system. This in itself should also be linked to how respected you are as a manager in the FM world in general, and also by specific players in your team.
I agree also with the feedback issue. It is similar to issues I have with media responses in that there seems to be no tangible link to the match engine events (red cards impact results, injuries impact performances etc.). I have often seen the commentary state how ‘Player A seems fired up’ yet when I check the feedback it says ‘Didn’t seem to be listening’. I have reached a point where I don’t even look at team talk feedback anymore as it is too infuriating.
To be honest I find it difficult to comment on team talks and their effects as for me it is difficult to spot whether or not a change in performance is down to the team talk or tactical changes by me or the AI. Also with what I posted before I am only guessing at how team talks work in the code and I could be way off the mark. All I can say is that as it stands the major problem with team talks is our interpretation of what they mean and when they should be used versus SI's interpretation of what they mean and when they should be used. But as with the confusion over tactical sliders it wouldn’t surprise me if SI felt this ambiguity was part of the gaming experience.
The team talks for me, are the icing on the cake for me in the game experience as a whole.
The experience of the game when played, seeing the labour that fellow FM gamers, that will have put in some may have put in some may have taken a microscope to their tactics, formations, others may not have been as detailed.
The problem lies in the "vagueness" or the end users interpretation to the options given. Which at times can be a right old kick in the teeth, at times, because the options do need a re-vamp.
Where as I do strongly agree on the method on how the message given is stressed,this can clearly be moral boosting in one way of stressing the answers chosen. When deciding on how your going to give the team talk.
It can be so easily (Well I'm no coder) added to the game, maybe in MF'09 or FM'10. Such as the options would be the same, but there are for example three variations on the same answer for tone or stressing the phrase/team talk that you'll give.
Such as, using one possible answer with the given variations for your seach/team talk to them at the time or your interpretation, on how its going to be delivered.
So you have your psychological effect on the team talk and your literal team talk in the same phrase. With x3 choices on the same response that be taken in different ways. Or interpretted in more ways than before, then we'll have an inkling on what were really saying.
E.G. Scenario currently its say I chose disappointed. The team are 2-0 down at 1/2 time, on a good of form of late. So I would say I'm not best pleased.
Angry disappointed
"Look here guys, I am not happy, nor are the fans either play today, or your dropped, now get out there a play the game, and stop watching them play it!!!!"
Middle of the road Disappointed
"I'm disappointed, what more can I say?"
Encourage Disappointed:
"Well, we've been playing so well looks likes lucks not going to be on our side today....sigh.
Come on lads keep up the good work, I know you'll do us all proud."
<LI> Work Hard
- Pre: I want to see you guys work hard for each other
- HT: We've got to work harder in the second half
- Full (W/D): Your hard work paid off
- Full (L): We've got to work harder next game
Impact: increased Work Rate
<LI> Play together
- Pre: I want you guys to play together as a team today
- HT: We've got to play more as a team in the second half
- Full (W/D): You guys worked well together today
- Full (L): We've got to stick together as a team
Impact: increased Team Work
<LI> Hold your shape
- Pre: Remember, I want you guys to hold your shape today.
- HT: We've got to hold our shape better in the second half.
- Full (0/1 goal conceded): You held your shape well today.
- Full (2+ goals allowed): We've got to hold our defensive shape better.
Impact: increased Positioning
<LI> Give each other options
- Pre: I want to see you guys moving well, giving each other options today.
- HT: We've got to have better movement in the second half. Give each other options!
- Full (2+ goals scored): The way you guys moved for each other really paid off today.
- Full (0/1 goal scored): We've got to have better off the ball movement.
Impact: increased Off The Ball
<LI> Less Mistakes
- Pre: I want to see you guys take care of the ball today. We can't afford to make mental mistakes.
- HT: We've got to make better decisions in the second half. Mistakes are killing us.
- Full (W/D): We made good decisions today, and avoided mistakes.
- Full (L): We've got to make better decisions and take care of the ball
Impact: increased Decisions
<LI> Concentrate
- Pre: I want you to stay focused today.
- HT: We've got to stay better focused in the second half.
- Full (W/D): Way to keep your concentration lads.
- Full (L): We've got to keep our concentration better.
Impact: increased Concentration
<LI> Be More Aggressive
- Pre: We've got to come out aggressive today. It's going to be a real scrap.
- HT: We've got to be more aggressive in the second half.
- Full (W/D): Our aggressive outlook really paid off today.
- Full (L): We just have to be more aggressive.
Impact: increased Aggressiveness
<LI> Who Wants It More?
- Pre: A game like this is all about will. Who wants it more?
- HT: We can win this. We just have to want it more than they do.
- Full (W/D): Your determination really paid off in the second half.
- Full (L): We can't quit on a game when we're behind.
Impact: increased Determination
These could be woven in amongst the existing options: we'd still want a way to praise and criticize players, of course. We need a way to relax nervous players before a big match, or get them fired up for a big performance. We'd still want a high-risk high-reward "Kick the boot at them" option at half-time and full-time, of course.
I'm not saying to do away with those - and obviously, some of these might be situational, e.g., the Determination full-time option wouldn't apply for a game we led 3-0 at halftime, so it simply wouldn't be presented.
Now, one aspect of the current complexity which works is that the same team-talk doesn't work the same on all players; I know its a bit controversial, but I'd want most of these to work for most players most of the time. The idea is that they're low-risk, low-reward options.
Still, each of these talks could have some personalities or situations that they don't work for - for example, a player in conflict with one of the other players on the pitch might react negatively to the "Play together". A player with poor Teamwork might selfishly ignore the "Give each other options" team-talk. A not-Brave player might have trouble overcoming his fear to be more Aggressive.
It would also require an "Effect gets nerfed if overused" mechanic; otherwise we'd just ask our goalkeeper to Concentrate every match.
* * * * *
I'd also like to see our personality as expressed in our team-talks play a bigger part in the game.
I'd like to feel like personalities other than "cheerful and encouraging" had a chance of succeeding: the perfectionist "its never good enough" persona, the "put the fear of god into them" persona, the "professor" persona (minimal emotion shown), and the "gruff, rarely praises you" persona should all be viable strategies, as long as we're consistent.
Of course, different player personalities should want different ones - but looking at real coaches and managers, those seem to be the key types that are "missing" from our current scheme.
Important to this, however: we need to be able to criticize our players after a win. I know that that doesn't make a lot of sense on the surface, but I've heard plenty of interviews with real players (multiple sports) where a critique after a sloppy win was crucial for their development.
In FM, that approach doesn't really work - so many players react negatively to criticism that its tough to dish out.
Lastly, manager personality could even feed in to player development. For example, if I prefer Determined, Aggressive play and I express that by using those team-talk options fairly frequently, my youth might develop to be more Determined and Aggressive than they would otherwise.
A different manager, who focused on Teamwork and Moving For Each Other might be rewarded with players who gradually increase their Team Work and Off the Ball, while a third who favoured Concentration and good Decisions might be rewarded in those areas.
* * * * *
The final area which I'd want to see improved is the feedback section.
First, I'd reserve the "Didn't Seem To Be Listening" result for players who have lost confidence in their manager as shown in a Slight or Major concern - or players who had a specific negative reaction to the specific team-talk given, as in the examples I gave five paragraphs above.
Second, I'd supplement the feedback with a few more options, to make the "Nothing specific noted" much more rare. I'm not sure what all the options should be - but maybe something to touch on how the player played as a result. For example, if a guy was on a 6 at halftime, and after my team talk, he scored two goals and raised himself to an 8 .. that's not "Nothing specific noted", that's "Played much better in 2nd half."
Finally, I'd add some e-mails from the Assistant about our team-talks, if we're consistently making the same mistake - in the current scheme, for example, "Not giving the players enough credit", maybe my Assistant would warn me about it before its become a major concern for half my squad! There are plenty of other spots, too, if my team talks are never negative, and the consequence of that is that the team is becoming complacent, my Assistant might tell me that also.
* * * * *
We've had the existing team-talk mechanism for three versions, now.
I think its time for an overhaul.
What do you guys think?
some good ideas.
i also feel that although in the game at the moment there are different wordings they basically mean the same thing
as long as your examples:
'i want you guys to play together as a team today'
and
'we've got to play more as a team in the second half'
aren't just different wording, same difference then that's fine.
Yes I agree with less is more, but we still need to have more options, IMO.
It can be implemented, in the same way as it is now; in the same form on the drop down menu's being sub-drop down menu's, on top of what is there. The answer/option is a little more drawn out, more words, a clearer explanation to what were choosing.
Along with a mood with the sub menu's options. I wouldn't dream of having far too much.
I think SI to be fair had tried to draw a delicate balance with this great feature, may I add. Which can be a game breaker. Though I do strongly believe that they've gone to far down the less is more approach, with too much fiddly elements to the game's enviroment. Trying to please all newcomers and alike
They could lean a little more to adding a mood element to the team talks, a clearer description would nicer.
1) It'll make it much clearer on what were really doing/choosing.
2) We feel even more of an interaction, as can now see a much clearler perception of my words spoken, and can act upon them, as I now understand my actions and repercussions.
3) Newer gamers, will feel more at ease and understand the team talk and not avoid it. Or fear it. IMO.
Hell, it would be great. Bring it on I say.
On a side note, can all of the newer longer text be lost in translation, I speak only one language, now a phrase team talk spoken in my native language, in another languages some phrases may be more drawn out vocally, where in others the same phrase in that tongue is shorter..
Team talks, no let's be honest, the whole of the interaction side of FM is abysmal with massively limited, poorly worded options.
Although it's too late to see any of these in FM09. FM10 will probably be an entirely newly written game "to take advantage of modern technology in an ever changing business environment". So that will be full of bugs. Hopefully then, by around FM12, this should be implemented
Teamtalks should also be tactical too, managers do not just motivate during that time.
When Ramos took over at Spurs players commented that his teamtalks were always about tactics, and calm whatever the performance/score, with Poyet being the motivator.
Id like the opportunity to reinforce to my players their tactical instructions- eg if theyre not doing what Im asking I want to point this out, or praise where its due.
Part of FMs problem is that many options are vague and very generalistic- lets see some precision in the game and leave us in do doubt what we are asking or putting across.
The media and teamtalk stuff looked a great addition when they were brought in, but no progress at all has been made in implementing them from new release to new release. I'd rather they weren't in the game than in the state that they are.
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