Mentality discussion - what it actually does in both a team and an individual sense

retired_janearific · 11-18-2006, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by jep:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Cleon:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Creative freedom to me would affect how the player listens to instructions for forward runs, through balls, passing style etc... Basically, it would be up to the player to make his own mind up on what to do in all those situations

Thats exactly what creative freedom is, its allowing the football to use his own brain. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I have been wondering about creative freedom for a while now, and while I agree with you that more freedom allows the player to use his footballing brain, I wonder if you can use it for defensive players too. An example would be Jamie Carragher or Claude Makalele, whose natural instincts and style of play revolve around defending. By giving them a higher level of creative freedom are you allowing them to play their "natural" game and be defensive minded, or does a higher level of creative freedom just automatically give the player licence to attack ?? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats good in theory, but CF allows a player to ignore instructions and do what he thinks is right. So on a defensive player it could be costly. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Well thats my point though, if I give Carragher an instruction to rarely close down a player, and as the game unfolds he sees a chance to win the ball at an early opportunity rather than just backing off as instructed, I would want to trust a player as good as Carragher to use his own judgement rather than listen to the old fart barking orders on the sidelines !!

My point was to really find out if CF settings should be based on the quality of the player in your side rather than the position a player plays in. The manual uses the term "a team full of brazilians" when talking about high creative freedom which on the face of it sounds like a team full of skilfull attacking footballers. But it could mean a team full of gifted footballers who know how to make the right decisions on a football pitch in any given situation.

Just throwing some theories up in the air.....

retired_janearific · 11-18-2006, 08:14 AM

Having had another look at it CF seems to affect your players when your team is in posession of the ball, meaning a higher CF would not help your defenders much when they are actually defending.

Always learning something new with this game........

retired_elpata · 11-18-2006, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jep:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Cleon:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by jep:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Cleon:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Creative freedom to me would affect how the player listens to instructions for forward runs, through balls, passing style etc... Basically, it would be up to the player to make his own mind up on what to do in all those situations

Thats exactly what creative freedom is, its allowing the football to use his own brain. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I have been wondering about creative freedom for a while now, and while I agree with you that more freedom allows the player to use his footballing brain, I wonder if you can use it for defensive players too. An example would be Jamie Carragher or Claude Makalele, whose natural instincts and style of play revolve around defending. By giving them a higher level of creative freedom are you allowing them to play their "natural" game and be defensive minded, or does a higher level of creative freedom just automatically give the player licence to attack ?? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats good in theory, but CF allows a player to ignore instructions and do what he thinks is right. So on a defensive player it could be costly. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Well thats my point though, if I give Carragher an instruction to rarely close down a player, and as the game unfolds he sees a chance to win the ball at an early opportunity rather than just backing off as instructed, I would want to trust a player as good as Carragher to use his own judgement rather than listen to the old fart barking orders on the sidelines !!

My point was to really find out if CF settings should be based on the quality of the player in your side rather than the position a player plays in. The manual uses the term "a team full of brazilians" when talking about high creative freedom which on the face of it sounds like a team full of skilfull attacking footballers. But it could mean a team full of gifted footballers who know how to make the right decisions on a football pitch in any given situation.

Just throwing some theories up in the air..... </BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh ok, sorry i misread the point you was making. If the player as the attributes for making good decisions then yes id give him high cf. But make sure he as the other stats needed too.

Quote:

Having had another look at it CF seems to affect your players when your team is in posession of the ball, meaning a higher CF would not help your defenders much when they are actually defending.

Always learning something new with this game........

It makes sense, you cannot be creative without the ball

emrah1987 · 11-18-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon:
It makes sense, you cannot be creative without the ball

Not if you ask El Hadj Diouf. But you could argue that he was creative with the balls. :p

retired_janearific · 11-18-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon:
It makes sense, you cannot be creative without the ball

Well I was just thinking that creative freedom may have influenced a players descisions both on and off the ball (you have to use your footballing brain off the ball too you know

) but it seems it is just when in posession.

I have always been one of those managers who was a bit wary of creative freedom, and I tend to keep it on little or the first notch of normal for the whole side. I suppose this would conflict with an attacking mentality then as it seems quite restrictive to a winger or striker to say "go and be attacking in your play today" and then tell him he can't be creative.

I think I may try and mirror creative freedom with my players mentality and see what happens with my posession stats/passing stats because at the moment I am playing a direct, attacking and quick style of play and my passing stats are down between 65% and 69% usually. Maybe if I gave them more CF that would improve.

retired_mgavlick · 11-19-2006, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Noel Gallagher:
wwfan, that was a great write up.

So, theoretically, if you had a midfielder who's mentality was set to 20, that would mean he'd be looking to make an attacking move 100% of the time.

So if you set his other instructions to rarely for everything apart from try through balls which would be set to often, that would mean that every time he received the ball then for a very high percentage (can't say 100% because rarely doesn't mean never, so there's always a slim chance of attempting one of the other things) he would attempt a through ball?

In theory, yes.

retired_Jason R Cardwel · 11-19-2006, 02:53 AM

My guess is that you set individual player mentallity in order to get an overal performance of your team and how some players will position and work.
Then you set overall mentally accordling to the game, wich will effect a number of players there are set to overall mentality.

I mean: if you play a big side away, i doubt you will want attacking mentality. So i put defensive mentallity and some players will assume that (full backs, centre midfielders and side midfielders if playing 4-4-2).

So the team works the same way except for central defender (always deffensive) as well as wingers, attackers or playmaker (depending on tactics). These ones will have individual settings.

This says: i don't agree in setting a team mantalitty at the beggining of the game and stay with it all season. I tend to set mentalitty accordling to the odds, meaning each game.

But some pleys, depending on tactic used, will always have specific instructions. Ex: central defenders.

retired_mgavlick · 11-19-2006, 11:07 PM

Originally posted in TT&F, but may spur on discussion in here.

Quote:

Originally posted by PaulC:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Ans Gulrik:
I'm not saying that the engine isn't better than FM06. What I am saying is that you control less. There are certain ways of playing, that you simply can not instruct your players to play.

For all the good things that has happened, surely this is not one of them. You can not play with out and out wingers. You can't tell a winger: "Listen - you don't have any defensive duties. You just wait for your team mates to win the ball, and then you can concentrate on attacking." The only way for this to work is to make the winger play as a forward - and that seems a bit odd - doesn't it?

Anyway - this is a bit off topic...

Its probably worth me posting here that the 7.0.1 engine will have a bit more sensitivity in terms of the mentality instruction - in that the differences positionally of each end of the scale will be more profound. I think this gives a fair bit more control...... </BLOCKQUOTE>

retired_elpata · 11-19-2006, 11:09 PM

It is good, you can actually feel the changes you do now. Where as before you didn't notice too muchh the changes that where made.

retired_mgavlick · 11-19-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleon:
It is good, you can actually feel the changes you do now. Where as before you didn't notice too muchh the changes that where made.

I do miss beta testing. Sigh!

Mentality discussion - what it actually does in both a team and an individual sense

It's no use having a squad full of star players without a decent way for them to play their football.

Mentality discussion - what it actually does in both a team and an individual sense