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OK, just wondering what the board views on this specific issue are. It seems to me that we've talked a lot about what CF "is", but not a lot about it's overall impact and it's sensitivity to slider settings.
So, my basic question is, how do you "use creative freedom sparingly..". Does this mean, "vary the creative freedom setting sparingly..." or does it mean "give lots of creative freedom sparingly? i.e, does that mean 2 players in your team over 12? Or does it mean most players in your team shouldn't vary from the middle of the slider?
This question arises out of my observations on the back 5 players in my team. Too many long, high aimless balls for players with short passing settings. Is this CF related? I'm struggling to identify.
When looking for others views here the suggestions have been contradictory:
- Lower CF for defenders, then they'll stop playing the "hollywood pass".
- Increase CF for defenders, then they'll stop panicking and clearing the ball so aimlessly.
Now, in my head low CF should work in this way.
- Set DC to 1 for CF and 5-6 for passing. Absolutely the lowest CF possible. He gets ball, he instantly looks for a close unmarked player and passes it to him. Only after looking up and not seeing a short pass in any position would he launch it forward.
What seems to actually happen is.
- Defender on low CF and short passing. He gets ball, he ignores DMC standing within 5 yards, MC's standing within 10 yards and Wingers standing within 20 yards and plays a long pass to the lone SC, who has 2 defenders marking him. The alternative (though very slightly less common) to this is he gets ball, ignores DMC, MC and the SC who has dropped off his markers to look for a shorter pass, and launches it high towards the advancing winger, who is marked by a full-back and being closed down by one of the DC's that the striker have moved away from.
A similar scenario applies when lowering CF for the midfield. They will play almost exactly the same number of short passes to unmarked team-mates with 1 CF as they seem to do with 20 CF. Interestingly most of the short passes take place in the opponents have. They very rarely pick the ball up deep and play passes there, where there is space.
I'm beginning to seriously think that "use" means "adjust" rather than "give lots of".
What seems to actually happen is.
- Defender on low CF and short passing. He gets ball, he ignores DMC standing within 5 yards, MC's standing within 10 yards and Wingers standing within 20 yards and plays a long pass to the lone SC, who has 2 defenders marking him.
Anyone else had any thoughts on this?
I know how you feel about this. It is very frustrating but here are some things to consider.
1. Creative freedom is not a good thing for any defenders but not really because of the passing. The more creative freedom you give a player gives him license to move within a larger radius of the position you told him to stay in.
2. Make sure that other players around your defenders (and the midfielders that are causing you problems) are moving into enough space to make a pass possible.
3. If you have selected a high tempo for your team, the defenders often rush passes and these long passes you speak about are symptomatic of this.
4. Have you selected "Through balls - Rarely/Mixed/Often" for these players? Very often this can be the cause of a ball being blasted up to the forwards and wingers.
5. And finally, what passing distance are you allowing for your defenders? If you have set it to short and there are no players moving into space to accept the pass (usually because these players don't have enough creative freedom to get away from their man), the defender will inevitably "punt" it to someone else. If the passing is set to long, but the passing ability of the player is low, it will again inevitably end up being headed away by the opposition defence.
It does sound like you need to do 2 things (other than look at these points I have mentioned) and that is:
1. From back to front, check the distance (in terms of the "Mentality" slider) between your players. I usually have something like the following:
- DC's set to 3 (3rd notch)
- DMC's set to 6
- AMC's set to 9
- FC's set to 12
Exactly what you set them to is not as relevant but giving them enough distance apart can be.
2. Have your "Creative Freedom" slider starting off low for DC's (3 perhaps) and moving up in similar increments all the way up to your forwards who should have a higher level of creative freedom. The higher you go up the pitch, the harder it is to find space, so you need more creative freedom to expand the radius in which your players will operate.
Of course, a mistake that I often find being made on these forums is people trying to come up with a killer tactic. Never before (in all the previous CM and FM versions) has it been so important to look at each player's attributes and "tweak" slightly.
And finally, watch the first few games in full match mode but don't make big changes until you have seen them play 3 or 4 games against different formations and quality of teams.
Hope that makes a bit of sense at least. And good luck.
1. Decisions: Do your defenders have good DEC... mine have some of the best on the team, so I give them high CF as a result. My GK has the highest CF on the team, due to 19 in DEC.
2. Counter-attack: If you have this on, CDs may be looking for a quick strike.
3. Defensive LineL: If you are playing deep, they may not have a short pass forward available, ie too much space between defenders and midfield.
4. Team mentality and individual mentality: If either is set to attack, your defenders may be looking for an attacking option.
I know how you feel about this. It is very frustrating but here are some things to consider.
1. Creative freedom is not a good thing for any defenders but not really because of the passing. The more creative freedom you give a player gives him license to move within a larger radius of the position you told him to stay in.
2. Make sure that other players around your defenders (and the midfielders that are causing you problems) are moving into enough space to make a pass possible.
3. If you have selected a high tempo for your team, the defenders often rush passes and these long passes you speak about are symptomatic of this.
4. Have you selected "Through balls - Rarely/Mixed/Often" for these players? Very often this can be the cause of a ball being blasted up to the forwards and wingers.
5. And finally, what passing distance are you allowing for your defenders? If you have set it to short and there are no players moving into space to accept the pass (usually because these players don't have enough creative freedom to get away from their man), the defender will inevitably "punt" it to someone else. If the passing is set to long, but the passing ability of the player is low, it will again inevitably end up being headed away by the opposition defence.
It does sound like you need to do 2 things (other than look at these points I have mentioned) and that is:
1. From back to front, check the distance (in terms of the "Mentality" slider) between your players. I usually have something like the following:
- DC's set to 3 (3rd notch)
- DMC's set to 6
- AMC's set to 9
- FC's set to 12
Exactly what you set them to is not as relevant but giving them enough distance apart can be.
2. Have your "Creative Freedom" slider starting off low for DC's (3 perhaps) and moving up in similar increments all the way up to your forwards who should have a higher level of creative freedom. The higher you go up the pitch, the harder it is to find space, so you need more creative freedom to expand the radius in which your players will operate.
Of course, a mistake that I often find being made on these forums is people trying to come up with a killer tactic. Never before (in all the previous CM and FM versions) has it been so important to look at each player's attributes and "tweak" slightly.
And finally, watch the first few games in full match mode but don't make big changes until you have seen them play 3 or 4 games against different formations and quality of teams.
Hope that makes a bit of sense at least. And good luck.
Hawshiels,
Everything you say there makes perfect sense, and to be honest you have really just backed up my point that there is still some uncertainty onthe interconnectivity and usage of CF.
1. I know that CF for defenders affects their positioning, but as it also affects their passing, there is a balance to be struck.
2. My midfielders are consistently available, as I said in my original post, they are ignored by the defenders.
3. My tempo is low- to medium (between 5-8, very occasionally 10).
4. No, TTB are rarely for DC's and "mixed" for full-backs.
5. The passing is short, again as per my original post. 6-8 is used throughout the team.
On the point on mentalities, I do work slightly higher from your suggestion. DC's = 4-5, full-backs 6-8, DMC 6 or 7, MC's 9-11, wingers 11-14 and SC 10-12. Therefore there is a good balance in terms of "spacing".
Again, similar with CF(4-6-8-10-12) , other than the wingers who are up at 12, whilst the SC is at 10 (as he is lone I don't want him wandering too far).
I have never tried to come up with a "killer" tactic. What I'm trying to do is spark some discussion on Creative Freedom, trying to see what other people's observations are. My current tactic, whilst far for perfect, is proving extremely effective (I've spent net £1m with Sunderland, got promoted on 100 points and am 2nd in the Prem this season).
What I'm trying to do is improve it with some consideration to a particular aspect of it.
Of course you're absolutely right about watching the first few games in full mode. People should do this more often before coming to the boards with queries. I have done, and my observations (which in fairness I've been fairly detailed about, I can't imagine why you'd think I hadn't done this! )leave me querying the use of this instruction.
Originally posted by Kristian:
My current tactic, whilst far for perfect, is proving extremely effective (I've spent net £1m with Sunderland, got promoted on 100 points and am 2nd in the Prem this season).
I wish you had said this before I embarrassed myself by trying to teach YOU anything. If I was getting an improvement like that, I'd be too smug to come on and ask for help. In fact, I'd be on here boasting about this.
Sadly, as Athletico madrid , I have a rather potent Valencia team to deal with (not to mention Barca and Real) so I've got my own problems. But if they get me down, I now know who to ask.
1. I know that CF for defenders affects their positioning, but as it also affects their passing, there is a balance to be struck.
CF effect everything for everyone, whether it be positional, distribution.
Quote:
2. My midfielders are consistently available, as I said in my original post, they are ignored by the defenders.
Could be due to the passing of your defenders, depending what their passing is set on, the midfield might be out of reach. For example, if they have sort passing then they would rather pass sideways or back than to a player unmarked further up the field.
Quote:
3. My tempo is low- to medium (between 5-8, very occasionally 10).
Tempo could dicate too who the players pass too. Because its rather low, they wont look for moving the ball forward fast. A slightly faster tempo could help.
Originally posted by Hawshiels:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Kristian:
My current tactic, whilst far for perfect, is proving extremely effective (I've spent net £1m with Sunderland, got promoted on 100 points and am 2nd in the Prem this season).
I wish you had said this before I embarrassed myself by trying to teach YOU anything. If I was getting an improvement like that, I'd be too smug to come on and ask for help. In fact, I'd be on here boasting about this.
Sadly, as Athletico madrid , I have a rather potent Valencia team to deal with (not to mention Barca and Real) so I've got my own problems. But if they get me down, I now know who to ask.
:eek: </BLOCKQUOTE>
Ha ha ha, no, trust me mate, I'm enjoying it while it lasts!
I suspect a lot of it is luck (the number of late goals I got last year to salvage 1-1 draws is unbelievable).
I started this season very well, winning 6 out of 8 and holding a surprise lead in the EPL until game 17, but a horrendous number of draws and again that was mainly due to none of the top teams really putting a run together. To Man Utd winning 4 games in a row to catch and pass me. There are Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Portsmouth all within a point of me now.
But I'm delighted nonetheless! I'm just trying to get this issue sorted out before the wheels really come off!
<BLOCKQUOTE> 3. My tempo is low- to medium (between 5-8, very occasionally 10).
Tempo could dicate too who the players pass too. Because its rather low, they wont look for moving the ball forward fast. A slightly faster tempo could help. </BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry Cleon, can you expand on this a wee bit.
If tempo is low, I agree the defender shouldn't look for a fast ball forward. That's one reason I'm so perplexed as to why they do look for an early ball forward, when my team only generally plays 6-8 tempo.
Genuinely, I am beginning to wonder if "use sparingly" mean "adjust sparingly".
<BLOCKQUOTE> 2. My midfielders are consistently available, as I said in my original post, they are ignored by the defenders.
Could be due to the passing of your defenders, depending what their passing is set on, the midfield might be out of reach. For example, if they have sort passing then they would rather pass sideways or back than to a player unmarked further up the field.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry Cleon, once again to quote from my original post
Quote:
What seems to actually happen is.
- Defender on low CF and short passing. He gets ball, he ignores DMC standing within 5 yards, MC's standing within 10 yards and Wingers standing within 20 yards and plays a long pass to the lone SC, who has 2 defenders marking him. The alternative (though very slightly less common) to this is he gets ball, ignores DMC, MC and the SC who has dropped off his markers to look for a shorter pass, and launches it high towards the advancing winger, who is marked by a full-back and being closed down by one of the DC's that the striker have moved away from.
If they did pass sideways, I'd be pleased, because generally my DMC or even MC's are close to them.
They don't seem to though, they aim for the sole SC with 2 men right up his backside or, if he comes short then they ignore him and look for the winger who now has one of those 2 AND his full-back to deal with. The ball is generally a high one too.
Use Creative Freedom "sparingly".... 
)leave me querying the use of this instruction.
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