retired_amymic23

Okay so I decided that you guys are right and that LLM is the only realistic way to play CM.

So I sign up for the Hereford job under "no real players" and prepare to meet my doom as I can no longer sign all the free standouts that were my staples as a heathen and Hereford is big in debt and does not have a very good squad. I also used a tactic of my own creation that's a tweaked 4-4-2.

Here's the problem, after years of sacrilege I've learned enough about tactics that tactics of my own creation can be fairly effective (not as effective as others but effective nevertheless). The problem manifested itself as I sat atop the Conference four points clear of Dag and Red with a dozen games left in the first season.

I know that sounds like bragging, but it isn't. I don't think it's realistic for the club to be doing that well especially since it's mostly the same players I started with winning the games. It looks pretty clearly like the AI can't figure out how to score against the tactic since I'm at around 0.6 goals allowed per game. I'm assuming that even though I'm using my own tactic, my tactic is still tipped after previously spending years prior reading others' tips on tactics.

So how do I "untip" my knowledge on tactics. Do I resign myself with "default" tactics and only use player instructions without modifying the WB/WOB screens? Can you be successful this way?

Any help appreciated.

retired_laceyjay

I'd say as long as the tactic is a default that you've modified yourself, it's probably valid.

After all, I would imagine the vast majority of real managers use tactical knowledge accumulated from other coaches over the years. All you are doing is taking that basic knowledge, and applying it to your team.

retired_shaffam

it sounds to me like you deserve to be topping the table, as opposed to having un-fair knowledge. You've developed your own tactics with your own experience...so if you get Hereford promoted, its because of your management...which is what's supposed to happen.

KUTGW...and keep writing if you keep it going on up the divisions.

retired_tinkfaeree

Just try to think about some things:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Is the tactic you are using realistic or does it look weird in comparison to real life teams?
<LI>Does the tactic make use of your players strengths or are these things unimportant because it works every time?
<LI>Is it balanced, or does it exploit bugs in the match engine?
</UL>

If you can't answer these three questions with 'yes' there might be some problem regarding the ethics of LLM. Otherwise it's just fine if you found something that works well with your players and brings you success.

Personally, I think that having success is much more rewarding when you had to struggle for a long time before and when you know that it didn't come automatically.

KUTGW and also check out the SWYCT guidelines - maybe you'll like to employ them too.

retired_steffani

tend to disagree with your bit about does it look like a tactic in real life. Managers pioneer new tactics all of the time. Otherwise i agree with Oliver m8

retired_tinkfaeree

This was a bit of misunderstanding between you and me, Wimb. I didn't mean that custom made tactics should look the same like tactics used IRL. I wanted to point out that they should look like they *could* be used in real football and not only in a simulation. A tactic without any wide players for example would not only make use of flaws in the match engine (don't know whether this has been fixed) but would also be highly unlikely to be seen.

KingsbayYHPE

The problem arises with super-tactics, and where your own devised tactics become "super".

The way I look at it - Well known CM tacticians like George Mcd and Martin O'Neill are recognised experts. The tactics they devise are perfectly legit when they use them themselves (unless, as previously mentioned, they exploit the game engine)

When they cease to be legit is when they're posted on the 'net for guys to download and use them.

I owe my relative successes to tactics I have devised and use throughout different Divisions, i.e. I use a certain tactic for each Team I play with in the Conference and Division 3, slightly altered for Division 2, and completely different tactics for Division 1 and the Premiership.

I sleep easy knowing they're my own work, and no-one else (except my son) uses them.

What I'm getting at? If you devised the tactics for your own use, then it'd be difficult for a LLaMa to decry it.

Good luck

retired_amymic23

Well to clarify a little. The tactic _is************** and most of the time looks as such. Obviously certain key players are told to move into certain key attacking or defending positions when the ball is in key areas of the pitch Basically it's just a ***** with the roles of certain players more easily defined by where they are on the pitch. It's not one of those bizarre tactics that you've never seen nor will ever see IRL.

I don't actually think I'll get promoted. Dag and Red are MUCH better than me and haven't lost in their last 20 league games (in that run was a four-nil spanking they gave me at Hereford). The next to last match of the season is at Dag and Red and I'm assuming I'll at the very least need to get a point to win it. Should be a great game under those circumstances.

As far as Tactics suited toward players, I tend to favor the school of getting the players to suit the tactic, meaning that I tend to get players who are great in one area and pants in the rest rather than players who are solid across the board. So if I don't have players to fit the tactic, I change players instead of changing tactics. Managers IRL do this all the time.

The real question is whether I'm exploiting the match engine or exploiting things in ways managers IRL could exploit various strategies. I simply don't know the answer to that. For example, if I use a strategy to defeat a man marking system, am I defeating the man marking system from the match engine (learned from previous CM experience) or am I strategically providing a defeat to a real-life man marking system. One is likely a cheat, the other isn't. Obviously that might depend on how I'm actually doing it, but saying so would be obvious tipping.

Anyway, as long as I'm not clearly out of bounds (and the tactic doesn't always work though sometimes it escapes me why it doesn't work for some teams), I'll continue to have at it and see if I can hold on for the Champagne and Caviar a division 3 spot affords its managers.

Now that I've made a big deal, I'm sure I'm looking at 12 straight defeats and relegation next year.

[This message was edited by iajafer on 30 January 2003 at 22:50.]

retired_berrysale

We don't mention formations, even if it's a default tactic. It could start someone tipping and that we don't want to happen.

KingsbayYHPE

Now you're getting too far into tactical discussion. We don't want to know, LLM's not for that.