littlecat

And how many times do we end up having discussions about discussions recently??

Stop it!! Turn it in!!

KingsbayYHPE

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taipan:
No offense to anyone concerned, but personally I'm getting more and more annoyed about the amount of stories in this forum.

Yes I mean stories and not updates. Updates are a quick snapsot of how you are going. Five or six lines should be enough to cover what is happening. At present there seems to be an abundance of these epistles littering the forum.

It's fine to have an update on how you are going with maybe two updates per season, but these long winded posts have got to stop.

If you want to do a story, the CMS forum is for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bravo!! It had to be said, and you were the man, Taips.

LLM is becoming like a second-rate CMS Forum (and that's saying something).

Updates are definitely getting longer, the number of tables being printed has got to the ridiculous stage, and the dissection of "important" games - about 20 a season according to some - is pointless to say the least.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but these long winded posts have got to stop.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
...and we're just the guys to stop them.

KingsbayYHPE

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Are the venerable regulars put off by having new LLaMas posting here?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you really think that perhaps you're posting in the wrong place? The only new guys that aren't welcomed with open arms are the guys who come in without reading/ignoring the Forum Header.

Some of the guys who post the most verbose updates are the longest standing users.

But to answer a few of your points:

Sometimes the input and effort from one of your players does warrant a mention (like your DML, like my 40y/o "youth prospect"). Where to draw the line is what escapes a few of the guys.

Tables, I hate. Posting full tables in every post is unnecessary. Partial tables at the end of the season, Top 5 for instance, ot relegation battle - wherever your Team is - is sufficient to show your progress/lack of it. CL tables on top of that make me break out in a rash. Tried it myself, stopped soon after.

When the mods decide something's gone too far, it's stopped. No democracy there. That's what we're here for, to make sure LLM maintains its' integrity.

KingsbayYHPE

Dirk, many of the "original" users make only occasional visits to LLM because of the number of update threads.

One thing I have noticed in the past few months is that the majority of newer guys who question the ethics of LLM are the guys who post the majority of stories.

co-incidence?

retired_cathylynn820

Democracy, No and god no. It shouldn't be, leave democracy for the real world.

I honestly believe this is a great discussion, expecially since I hadn't noticed the "problem." As you might gather I don't see a problem, I honestly don't. If I see an update thread I don't like I don't read it as simple as that. If I see any violations of the LLM ethics in any thread I go and fetch my flamethrower and my marshmellows.

I haven't noticed that those with the longest updates are the ones questioning LLM ethics, but if that's the case they should be put in their place because of their violations and not because of the length of their updates. I know some people on this board are against the updates, and I'm aware that some of the old regulars stay away for the same reasons, but if you ask me they should do something about it and stop whining.

As for the democracy, I stated my agreement, but it would be a sad day if an update thread was closed because a mod thought it was too long.

I like varied updates, and I like some styles better than others. I read the first couple of posts of all the update threads and if it catches my interest I keep reading. That's how it has always been and how it will always be.

'nuff said (from me anyway)

retired_blondielovespink

I have to agree with Essex, I thought the updates were what sold me on playing LLM style and thinking through what a manager would or would not know and what he could or couldn't do. IMHO, you can't have one without the other.

I'm almost certain I'm one of the violators on this. Though I've never posted a CL table. LOL. That said, I guess I'll echo what some others said. Why not CMS? Because frankly, CMS doesn't give a rip about anyone who doesn't play a big-name team, and I don't want to go into player-tipping, tactic-naming, etc. If I say I disciplined a player, it's usually because 1) the player is key to my plans (present or future), and 2) he didn't like it and thus it led to larger problems.

I did post on questions/issues for a good while before I made my first update thread. And the first one I discussed, I did take a view that I hadn't thought out well yet, as I was just thinking through LLM at the time. But I don't think I've ever questioned the ethic here. All I've ever noted is that it's odd German teams can't tour the country to their immediate right. And, as noted, that's another reason why I don't go to CMS anymore, aside from a couple I've followed for some time, because I have no confidence that the way people are playing the game is how I think the game should be played.

And as for why my updates tend to be longer, in the end, it's because when I finally get interested enough in things to talk about them, I do. Do I like discussing issues too? Yep, that's why this post is long. I'm a grad student pursuing an academic Masters, I analyse things by nature. If someone doesn't want to read my updates because they're too long, that's their choice. I never put, "Read me, read me" in flashing lights next to the thread topic. I think, personally, it's a lame reason not to read it, but you're the one who has to choose what to do with your time.

As to being newer, I guess I'll defend that on the grounds that I'm a Yank and it took me the better part of 6 months to find a way to get the game shipped here so I could 'start' playing it. So I'm that much further behind the rest of you.

retired_blondielovespink

CM Stories, otherwise known as the haunt of player-tippers, tactic exposes, and a few decent stories in the midst of a lot of rubbish.

KingsbayYHPE

Championship Manager Stories, JK. "Hell on Earth" in LLM parlance. Raptor's house

I hope beyond hope that LLM becomes, with the advent of CM4, the Forum it was before. The original guys that don't visit very often have stated on many occasions that if updates are all LLM's about nowadays they'd rather leave it.

I'd rather lose the updates than lose the users.

Unfortunately, for Taipan and me, leaving them isn't an option. We have to read every one to make sure there aren't any transgressions, although there are a few that can be left without any worries on an LLM basis.

Lastly, what donald said about closing updates because of length. We should all be thankful that some aren't closed for being pÃ*sh

retired_icee

This forum is in a horrendous state and has been for months.

I've been openly against updates since the beginning and have no reason to change my opinion now (even though I rarely come in here anymore).

I'd rather see a dead forum then what's going on now

retired_cathylynn820

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Lastly, what donald said about closing updates because of length. We should all be thankful that some aren't closed for being pÃ*sh <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Point taken

I'll try to improve