TeeWee

I'm thinking of buying FM08 once the new patch is out; one question though: how good is the manual? Obviously, the manual should tell the user what all the buttons do, but that's not my question.

Does it explain what all the attributes do, what all the tactical sliders mean to the game engine, etc? What does a forward arrow actually do? Does it interact with the possible position of a player? How about when retraining? I'm not asking for a manual that will "play the game for me", but as the sliders and all are the only means for me to communicate my intentions to the game engine, I think the manual should at least explain to me in the best way possible what they all mean to the game engine.

backpackant

In the most basic way, yes. It tends to be just bulletpoints in terms of details such as attributes. There's also a tutorial within the game itself which I've used a few times. If you had FM07 it's almost the same in terms of use.

Hazzydeepy

It goes quite indepth in terms of the sliders system on training and tactics and is quite a good manual in terms of detail. It could be improved by telling us more about the match engine. But as you said we dont want it to play the game for us. So it does it job, out it that way.

gunnerfan

If you really want to understand the tactical aspect of the game, I strongly recommend you drop in to the Tactics Forum. There are some very good posts there.

pyewackett

To be honest, I'm getting more familiar with games manuals being wafer thin now. Game manuals in general not just FM.

As most games have in game tutorials, the manual for this game is detailed for the new comer, for those new to the game of football, or this genre its very good IMHO, it maybe even a little overwhelming in some cases.

But you even have a virtual guide for hinting, on what to do next.

I think as a manual can be, its pretty neat, I even took mine to the toilet with me to brush up on anything that I may have missed.

TeeWee

Thanks. Sounds like the manual I'd expect these days; enough to, technically, play the game, but a bit too thin on the details on what things actually mean in the game world.

postal postie

there's only so much a manual can show without being so overwhelming with info as to make it impossible to read.
it will give you the basics. i dont think it's necessary to tell you what every single attribute means.
other tactical stuff is for you to learn as part of the game otherwise they may as well just give you a cheat code or something.

TeeWee

I fundamentally disagree with your statements.

A well written manual, even if it has loads and loads of information, is due to its very nature of being well written, a very readable document. I agree that these are very rare and becoming even rarer now, but that does not mean they are impossible.

And I do think it's necessary, or at the least extremely desirable, to describe what all your input variables actually do in terms of game engine. Those are the tools the developers have given us to use to interact with the world, so it should be a well described tool set.

I do not want a manual that tells me that settings XYZ makes the killer tactic. I do want a manual that tells me what settings XYZ actually mean in the game engine and what to expect.

From the discussions I see on this forum, the tool set is not as well described as I'd prefer (though sufficient to play it and discovering this through trial and error). Else there would not be as much discussion about the effect of sliders or attributes as I see around here.

Anyway, this is only a small part of the purchasing decision. The most important one is the way the new patch will be received... Thanks all!

bomjr

Well, in Thailand, they sell imported originals of FM 30% more expensive than the domestic originals. Problem is, the domestic origs got their manuals in bloody THAI! And since its in a small box, the text is angasa font size 10!

My point is, these forums are all you need. Don't bother with the manual either since FM08 also has an in game tip function. I suggest you shelve it. I collect game manuals, and this is going into the "shelf"...

postal postie

I fundamentally disagree with your statements.

A well written manual, even if it has loads and loads of information, is due to its very nature of being well written, a very readable document. I agree that these are very rare and becoming even rarer now, but that does not mean they are impossible.

And I do think it's necessary, or at the least extremely desirable, to describe what all your input variables actually do in terms of game engine. Those are the tools the developers have given us to use to interact with the world, so it should be a well described tool set.

I do not want a manual that tells me that settings XYZ makes the killer tactic. I do want a manual that tells me what settings XYZ actually mean in the game engine and what to expect.

From the discussions I see on this forum, the tool set is not as well described as I'd prefer (though sufficient to play it and discovering this through trial and error). Else there would not be as much discussion about the effect of sliders or attributes as I see around here.

Anyway, this is only a small part of the purchasing decision. The most important one is the way the new patch will be received... Thanks all! </BLOCKQUOTE>

i'm not saying that as it stands the manual is perfect. a well written manual has to tread a fine line between giving too much information and too little and since alot of the more in depth information can be found on line its not always necessary to go overkill with the information.
i can't remember whether the manual tells us what all the visible player stats do but i personally dont need to be told
the same for the tactical sliders.

a short overview explaining the two extremes is desirable (very short-long ball etc) but thats about it.

from what i see, people on here aren't wondering what the tactical sliders do, or rather not that many, more people seem to want to know how it translates to an FM match.
since i belive that SI want the sliders to mirror what you would expect to happen in real life they can't really explain that it doesn't and so here's how it really works in game.
if it doesn't work as in real life then this needs more play testing and tweaking.

at the end of it, lets not forget taht to find a good tactic takes knowledge and alot of fine tuning anway.
there's no scientific answer which they can put down in the book as to what combination of variables work well.