retired_dellydoolittle

:thup:

I don't understand how can a discussion like this harm anyone. more I wonder that, it seems like not many are interested in thread.

so I got one question and I think it's important. does player mentality over rides team? are these two different things.

retired_aries

I think then that the best direction, as I had already started to think during the original post, is that a sort of "one stop shop" thread about all the slider settings is the way forward.

As I've said, the aim will be to discuss the sliders in relation to given styles of play, different tactical sets, different situations during a game, etc...

There will be misunderstandings occasionally, but as I think we all (well mostly! ) agree, working with the sliders can be complex and confusing. It can take a long time and alot of tweeking to get some sort of "working" system going with your tactics.

Therefore I'll look at starting a proper thread, just the one, which will begin by looking at the roles of each slider, why they're there and what they're useful for.

From there it's over to the masses. The aim would be that once we understand the range and effect of the sliders, we can discuss, experiment, offer advice, help, and share our thoughts in general.

The benefits I believe will be many, not only for us understanding the game ourselves, but for SI in seeing how we play the game. Through good threads, I'm sure they are able to learn also, then make improvements/changes for future patches and releases.

I'll see if I can get the ball rolling properly tomorrow, so keep an eye out for it.


In the meantime - take a look at this <CLICK> and ponder how you could get your sliders to stop it happening

retired_HAdvocate

Mitja: I don't think that people are not interrested in participating in discussions, I just think that people these days don't take time to learn this game in the same fashion as learning to play some of the other advanced games on the market, and this is due to the fact that previous FM/CM games were always 'a walk in the park'. People just want to win, and this could be accomplished with some very easy programming.

I know just as many people wanting a challenge and would hate to go back to the days of super tactics and easy winnings as where is the fun in that? Let's say if I was a huge, strong 200cm boxer weighing 100kgs I could easily beat up a 100cm midget weighing 40kgs, but after a while you have got to ask yourself if you are making any personal progress because things are now a little one sided. You start dreaming of going to the big fights and making a name for yourself, and all the success you may have was hard fought for. Don't you think this will give you greater personal satisfaction?

People still think that there are 'magical combinations' on the sliders and since there are thousands and thousands of combinations (and of course they have tried them all with no success) that they need months and months of tweaking just to have some success. This is a huge problem for those that struggle, so they just give up and think everyone else that says they have success are lying...

To your last question: if team instructions override individual instructions then the individual instructions would become obsolete...

retired_fdsjr5765

Two different things. Team mentality basically sets how the team goes out to play and their style of play, attacking defensive etc. Whereas individual mentalities act to tweak the individuals positioning on the pitch slightly, and how much they will go about defending / attacking.

That is ofc my observations.

retired_maggie92

I find that players with good decisions benefit from having a lot of mixed instructions as they can the make the right decision.

i.e Mixed forward runs, mixed run with ball, mixed cross ball etc....

retired_aries

For me, alot of the tactical settings "make sense", but what makes sense to one person can often be a complete nonsense to another.

Very true Loversleaper

Diablo-esque tactics are a thing of the past. For me, they were the equivalent of buying an adventure game like Monkey Island, then printing off a walkthrough before you play it. (I actually did this for my mum today as she played it many years ago and forgot what to do!).

The next best alternative for those who "need" to win every match, or win trophies to enjoy the game is one of two things...

1) Use the editor or download FMM

2) Read some informative threads in T&TT Forum, by those with perhaps a better understanding of how the game works, therefore understanding better themselves.

There's no "magic" answer or definitive successful tactic, but by getting our heads together, we can understand more ourselves, whilst indirectly helping those that struggle, to understand better.

retired_dellydoolittle

I surely agree that FM08 is far more chelanging then it was. that's correct step forward SI made, in my opinoum. I just hope that people who demand "fun" part of this game back, won't be the majority here.

as for sliders, I realy don't see anything that could replace them. I'm not saying they are perfect and I wrote many things about them here. but the only thing person can do to learn their effect, is to actually watch matches. on full mode. and experimenting, going to extremes of each slider. that's how I learned them.

purejunie

and the team attributes in database, would indicate a style of play. Some styles may be more suitable to LLM than PL, some styles better against certain opposition and also some formations.

The comment from ObaMartins is interesting as individual players (or types of player) are seldom discussed, and how their performance can be maximised within a style of play.

retired_Kam_macca

I agree somewhat but also believe people give up in frustration because to succeed needs a certain expertise in understandng tactics which only comes about by doing brute force analysis of many games. This is all just to get an undertanding of what the sliders actually do.

We are given the very basic in descriptions and not given hardly anything to help analyse our tactics better, which for a new player makes the whole experience around matches and tactics inaccessable. This whole area of the game could be improved so much more but goes ignored each year we see a new release.

retired_mgavlick

Why shouldn't people launch new investigations. For what it is worth, I believe the threads linked to above still contain huge amounts of relevant information relating to playing 08. However, some of it does need updating.

There will never be any absolute best settings, just as there isn't an absolute best tactic (bezt taktik) in real life. However, just as in reality, FM generates competing theories about how to best play football. The more people who contribute to the theory building, the better. Nobody is saying 'choose my way, I'm the bezst'. They are just offering ideas and theories to help people better understand tactic building.

Offering deconstructions of how each slider affects play is a great idea. Expecting it to be the 'be all and end all guide' will end in tears. As long as heathxxx is focusing on the former I think his contributions will be a massive help to the FM playing community. Don't expect a scientifically positivist, provable result. Produce a series of loose theories we can pick and choose from as we please and you will have done a great service.