drewopel

I figured that myself and ran a test there.

I used the editor to change welling players/staff.

1. I set the assman to 200 ability, 20 for all stats.
2. I go through each player and remove all stats for MR/L and AMR/L.
3. I create 1 AML with 150 ability, 20 for each stat
4. I create 1ML with 145 ability, all stats the same as the AML
5. I create an AMR with 150 ability, same stats.

Start new game and get assman team report...

He picks the lower ability ML instead of the higher ability AML.

That's only 5 of a difference in ability, so I'm going to test that until I find the threshold where he picks the AML.

drewopel

I drop the ML ability to 140, and the assman still picks him over the 150 ability AML.

drewopel

I drop the ML ability to 135, and this time the assman picks the 150 abilty AML instead.

So it seems pretty clear to me that a players ability drops when you play him in a position where he doesn't have 20 for that positional stat. I was thinking the ability might drop on a point for point basis up to 20, but it's maybe a percentage, or 1 ability point for every 2 positional points away from 20. My laptop is too slow to setup games and edit the database, so I'm not investigating further.

Hopefully that's cleared that up.

drewopel

Regarding Robben's stats staying the same... His ability is 175, so even if it drops by 10 when you play him out of position, it's still amazingly high, probably as high as the average in the team, and possibly still higher than any other left winger you have. You don't see the difference via the stars, but I'm certain it's lower.

drewopel

Insomnia is ruling this evening, so I gave this one last test. With the ML at 139 ability, the 150 ability AML gets picked.

I conclude that the AML is definitely being docked 10 points from his ability by playing in the ML position for which I gave him 0 in the hidden positional stats.

Therefore, an AML cannot automatically play as well as a natural ML if his positions do not show that he is a natural ML.

Sorry for the multiple monologue posts here. Hopefully an admin can tidy this into one for me. Thanks.

retired_monica90

Interesting discussion this- could do with some SI input really.

retired_janae55

Is that what you really conclude after the test? Anyway, a FR/L position are for natural AMR/L players. A AMR/L can play there because they are in a more offensive position and they flourish in running up the flanks to create more chances. Thus, AMR/L can still play in MR/L but MR/L cannot play well in AMR/L. Whether AMR/L plays equally well in MR/ML, I cannot really give the exact answer. But I have used AMR/L who are not natural at MR/L to great effect in the latter positions, albeit with farrows up to FR/L positions.

drewopel

If the AML can naturally play in the ML position, then why isn't he picked instead of the ML? The assman picks players based on ability.

When the assman eventually picked the AML in my test, he puts the ML into a MC position, and the ML still has 5 stars. So using the stars to test ability is fruitless unless the change in ability is high enough. Remember, if Robben is 175 ability, each star may represent 35 ability points. That's a heck of change required to put him down to 4 stars. I don't know exactly how the stars rating on assman screen, because even a gk at 80 ability shows up as 4 stars when a 150 ability ML has 5 stars on the same assman screen.

The bigger picture that concerns me is training and morale. Does playing an player out of position affect morale? I don't have a manual for this version, but I'm sure it did in previous version. Is a players response to training affected by playing him out of position? I can't answer that one, but I wouldn't be surprised.

retired_monica90

It's an interesting theory Hector, but it's all based on the assumption that current ability is the variable that's used to select players. I have no idea what criteria the computer manager/assistant looks for (and am fairly confident that SI will never tell us)- but I do recall previous versions having "player models." These were linked to each major non-player (where research was available I guess) and were probably very influential in governing each computer manager's player selection/transfer policy.

As with so many aspects of this game though, it's all very speculative.

drewopel

Well, that's why I made all the test players the same in every respect, with the only difference being ability, and the positional stat. I changed birthdays, height, weight etc. too.

If I had the time and the inclination, I'd do more testing, and try to show the same results for players playing out of position by one place elsewhere on the pitch.

For me the bottom line is that some AMR have MR as a playable position, and some don't. It makes no logical sense that they can play as well as a natural in a position that they don't show as being capable of. Some of what I have said is speculation, but I've tried to back it up with some evidence.

I'm going to drop it now, as I don't think anyone can really prove for certain either way... but it's food for thought.