retired_o2k5o7

Just wanted to share my list of bugs and possible areas that I would like to see improved in FM09.

Player development
1- The CA of Players age 30+ decreases at an alarming rate
2- Young players increase a lot in one season 150-157 even when not playing lots of first team games
3- Players get too much development from training, playing first team, while playing CL or progressing far into the cups doesn't make a player improve more than normal: example, PSV win the CL in my game however the players don't show much more progress than normal
4- Injury prone players currenlty do not suffer more injuries than players that are less injury prone?
5- More focus on recurring injuries (injury history)

Match engine
6- Lots of red cards
7- Unrealistic pre season friendlies

Managers, and squad status
8- AI Managers don't adjust their tactics according to the squad they have. They only play their first and second preferred ones. They should atleast consider switching to a different tactic when joining a new club or adapt the tactics of the previous manager
9- Squad rotation and use of subs currently does not have any influence on the number of first team players, rotation, and backup
10- At the moment it is impossible to let the AI manager make choices about number of backup players and which players he wants to use. Lowering the current rep. of a player should eventually lead to the player becoming backup, and/or transferlisted or available for loan. However in FM it currently only leads to a decrease in the players wage and value.
11- Youngster play either all matches or none. AI should bring young talent in the right circumstances. First reserve team, minutes in the first team as a sub, playing time in big matches etc.
12- There is a lack of control over the squad status of players at the start of the game (important when the AI is manager of a certain team). It seems that the selection method is heavily based on natural position rather then a combination of CA an positions, natural fitness, stamina, influence, playing style, etc.

13- Apart from ability, reputation, formation and natural position of a player, perhaps there should be more options to control the status of a player at the start of a game, for example the following tickboxes in the editor:

Status: tickbox: New Player: Needs time to adjust to the circumstances at the new club (current reputation should decide whether he has to fight for a first team spot, or is first team candidate right away, no matter how good he plays
tickbox: Unfit: Player lacks fitness and/or match rythm because of lack of football. He hasn't played a lot (at the previous club). Examples: Luque (Ajax), Kluivert (Lille)
tickbox: Recovering from previous injury ( option injury ...): The player is not yet back in his old shape, because of a long recovering period from a (serious) injury
tickbox: Interest (option from club ...)
tickbox: Unhappy and Looking for new club: IMO this should status should be generated by the engine at the start of the game

Transfers, scouting & Money
14- Teams spend money without calculating risks. If there is money they want to spend this in one year. Example: Ten Cate at Ajax manages to decrease the bank balance from 26 mil. pounds to 0 in 3 years. This money can be used to buy players, but should be more seen as a buffer so the club has the power to buy a player if they really need to (he has enough promising youngster, average age of squad is low)
15- Teams always spend their bank balance, see previous example

16- Their is an urgent need of more personalisation of the board, staff and managers at clubs. Just like players I feel they could use some kind of preferred moves. Now behaviour is either random or always the same.
17- Adding to the above point, by giving managers and the board of a club more personality AI managers switching clubs will become fun instead of an annoyance. Now they only mess up the new squad, they don't make wise decisions. Currently it's a matter of luck if the new managers preferred formation matches the strengths of the new squad.

18- Number of transfers and the nature of transfers is random, and only based on a generated shortlist. Teams don't calculate the risks. Scouting should take more time for the AI. This could also make an end to the fact that the AI often makes a higher bid for a player you discovered, without having scouted the player.
19- Giving young talent the opportunity to develop. Currently the AI buy new talent even if they already have the players available from their youth setup.
20- Small clubs buy too many players abroad

21- Valuation of players should be more based on CA, rather than reputation and competition they play. This might prevent clubs from trying to sign cheap talent abroad.

Scouting & Youth academy
22- Need more control over scouting knowledge of staff. Too much related to nationality.
23- Too many youth academies. Many clubs have one, only clubs that scout for young players at an international level should have one IMO. Or their should be some types of youth academies (perhaps automatically generated by looking at stat for youth setup and club reputation): regional (small radius), regional (large radius), continental (very large radius) international
24-AI using trials before buying player. Currently the option is available, however the AI doesn't use it

Recommended additions:
A- More analysis tools especially at team level, adding stats (spider diagram at team level); using these stats to draw conclusions, or taken action. For example, increase fitness training if the average stamina in the first team is to low for the current playing style. Perhaps another manager would change its tactics rather than focussing more on stamina training.
B- Better AI for managers & transfer policy
C- More influence from club and competition characteristics on the behaviour of AI managers
D- Creating or loading a manager profile from a previous game. This feature would allow players to create a profile that suits their style of play (like Fallout, Jagged Alliance) or start a new game with a profile that has already made progress (gained reputation, etc.). This way you can start at a conference club and gradually work yourself up to premier league level, without having to play till 2020 or taking over a premier league job as a rookie in 2007.
E- Additionally, perhaps some profiles you can choose from at the start of the game (ex players like Zidane) or continue as McLaren or Rijkaard.

Xplode

Wow. Its been nearly 2 hours and no one has replied. I have to say muffinman that most of your points are very good. However i would like more improvements on the match engine and much more variation and detail on tactics and oof the field for the AI and human options in the off the field aspect.

leftfoot

I always wondered why this got removed from the game. Back in 01/02 certain injury prone players would get recurring injuries that then required them to be sent to a specialist for surgery to reduce the likelihood of the injury happening again. It was a nice little bit of realism that IMO should be brought back.

I agree with this. There needs to be a more cohesive link between preferred formations, actual tactics selected and squad make up. I would say that there is an improvement in this over previous versions although if you look hard enough you can find some anomalies.

I’m not sure what you mean but I haven’t noticed AI managers not assessing their squads. For example I found a 21 year old centre half playing for Milan but he was in the reserves and listed as a ‘decent young player’. It was near the end of the season and I made an enquiry. They wanted 4m for him which I felt was a bargain given his potential but I didn’t have the funds. When the new season began I had my new transfer budget and went looking for this centre half again. His squad status had been changed to ‘squad rotation’ and Milan now wanted 12m for him.

I also disagree with the idea of AI managers being coded to select players based on reputation. This might work out okay when real players are involved as their rep is assigned by researchers (and is linked to their ability) but once the game world is filled with a regen majority this could lead to some problems.

In an ideal world it would be great to see the AI managers attempt to develop youngsters in the same way human managers do but realistically I don’t know if that’s possible. Consider the thought process involved and how difficult it might be to code that in a logical but non-repetitive manner (so that it doesn’t result in all AI managers following the exact same pattern).

1. Does the player have the potential to be a star and therefore should I expose him to first team football to aid his development?

We get that information initially from what our coaches/assistant say but we also make a judgement based on our own experience of playing the game. The former could be coded but the latter is much more difficult to replicate in a logical, mathematical sense.

2. Does the player have the current ability to perform at the required level?

How we make that judgement and the difficulty in implementing that is a similar argument to 1.

3. How do we determine the level?

For example we look at the quality of the opposition and the importance of the match in deciding whether or not to blood youngsters. The quality of the opposition could theoretically be judged based on reputation or league position. The importance of the match would require an analytical ability in AI managers relative to their club’s seasonal expectations.

Not only that but we also use forward based judgements. Does our team have a number of matches close together? What’s the quality of the opposition in each of those matches? Are we playing fellow title challengers/relegation battlers where victory is crucial? All of this analysis before deciding to give a promising youngster a run out is something we do naturally as FM gamers and football fans, but coding this type of thought process into AI managers is not an easy thing to do without possibly leading to slower processing before each simulated round of matches or creating the potential for AI managers making poor decisions that affect the realism of the FM world as a whole.

Another decision we make is how many youngsters to blood at any given time. Do I field 11 young guns together or blend them with experienced back up players? This in itself is a personal choice and isn’t something easily replicated with code. It requires making individual assessments of players based on our experience of how they have performed in the past and goes beyond what our coaches/assistants judgement of their CA is.

On top of this we have the concept of ‘learning from our mistakes’. When we play the game we might decide in one match to give our youngsters a run out against a team we perceive to be lower quality opposition. If our team takes a beating we then reassess our original decision, and modify our future decisions based on this. Whether or not this type of feedback loop control system can be implemented in a consistent manner is questionable.

I agree with this issue also. For me it is part of an overall issue I have with the apparent lack of financial planning by clubs in the long term.

Economic factors determine relative pricing between different nations (and indeed clubs). The perceived financial position of the selling/buying club from the buying/selling club’s perspective affects how cheap a player is. The actual financial position of the selling club affects the price of a player. The footballing needs of the selling club of that player affect the price. The general market values affect the price of a player. The player’s desire/reluctance to leave affects his price.

The fact that buying a player from England costs more than buying an equivalent quality player from Romania is a fair reflection of reality. The lack of dynamic behaviour in how the quality of a league is assessed (and how that affects player valuations) is a problem in the game.

Scouting is another one that is difficult to replicate. In reality I would hazard a guess that most scouts have their own scouts i.e. a network of contacts that they use to keep them informed without necessarily having to go back and forth to a country to keep up to date. How this could be implemented I haven’t a clue. Coupled to this is how do you quantify a real life scout’s knowledge within a game and how quickly it increases/decreases. There has to be a mathematical measure of the concept within the FM world to give the gamer a reference point. It might not be realistic but it serves its purpose.

With regards to control over a scout’s knowledge I don’t see a problem. You send a scout to a country and his knowledge of that country increases, how much more control do you want?

As for academies I disagree that it should be limited based on the size of the club. The relative quality of academies is reflected in the game as if you start at a club that begins with the worst possible youth facilities and no academy, the first thing that occurs when you ask for an upgrade is the building of an academy. The quality of this academy then increases alongside the ‘Youth Facilities’ rating.

The range of nationalities of players that are generated is then affected by your scouting knowledge which IMO is a realistic system as opposed to one based on setup and reputation. For example Chelsea could build an academy with world class facilities the size of a London borough, but if they don’t have scouts out recruiting players for that academy then there won’t be any players in it. How could you have French players recruited to your academy if you have never scouted France or have no scouting knowledge of the country?

The majority of your other points have been commented on in the forum at one point or another with varying opinions, so I won’t respond to all of them as well (to avoid cluttering the thread ). TBH it’s the number of points in the thread and the fact that a lot of them have been posted before that affects whether or not people respond. :thup: for the effort though.

A lot of people have called for this in the past but I think that SI have refrained from implementing it because of their desire for realism. Say you played 20 seasons from 2006 to 2026 on FM 07, how do you account for that history in starting a new game in FM 08 in the year 2007? The game as it stands makes no direct reference to a manager’s history (trophies won, league positions etc.) when deciding on what jobs you get considered for, rather your reputation. So setting your past experience (International, Sunday League etc) to a related level gives the same effect as far as the AI is concerned.