retired_BrownVanilla

the ranking system is what infuences AI managers way to approach the games so for example if you are ranked 20th in the EPL(not league position by the way) most teams will come out very attacking at you, but then if you win the league you will then be ranked as the top team in the EPL so teams will be extremely defensive against you, so if your tactic is defensive you will suffer from draws becuase the other team isnt willing to attack

retired_mushy02

Got it. Thanks for the explanation guys!

retired_chick

So basically no tactic will ever just work. It will always need to be changed. Thats pretty poor really. I mean im not into tactic tweaking every game, and pottering about with every formation. I just want to be able to download a tactic that is half decent, and start playing/enjoying. Then sign players I want. I really with FM07 had some sort of hardness choice for players, maybe those who enjoy tweaking and tinkering with tatics could have the game set to a hard type mode, and for those like me, who dont have a mound of time to mess about with tactics, give the option to have an easy mode.

retired_mushy02

Surely, this re-ranking thing doesn't exist for real... It would be pretty pathetic, because it would make no sense at all. For example, if I have a great tactic and I have to play crappy opponents three times in a row, I should have to be able to win them all without TOO much problems. It wouldn't make sense if I would beat the first two games easily, but would lose the third, because the re-ranking system kicked...

The other way around would be terrible as well. If I'm Charlton and I would have to play Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea in consecutive matches...I should lose them all in most cases (maybe get a draw somewhere). And IF I should win, I would want to win because I'm a great tactician, not because the AI felt sorry for me and 'upgraded' my tactic by re-ranking it.

What's the source of this re-ranking-system anyway? Who came up with it? I think somebody who couldn't take defeat started this story ...

retired_chick

If its true then its pretty poor. It will basically make it impossible to win unless you spend lots and lots of time on tactics.

retired_timenow

re rnking is stupid if true, id dont see man u for example changing there style of play every season a simple 442 or sometimes 433, to much emphasis on tactics

retired_bpx667

once youve got the top players you surly shouldnt have to change to much, just like man utd and arsenal IRL, the only thing that stopes them is when new players come in or big players are missing for a while.

retired_janellewood86

No, it's a bonafide part of the programming of Football Manager and has been since time immemorial.

And you're missing the point.

Re-ranking simply means that after a certain point in the season (usually the middle and the end) the AI will approach you differently. This doesn't mean that it's easier to win when an underdog, it means that as an underdog teams will attack you and possibly leave holes in their defence. Likewise, if you're a top team the opposition will sit back and hit you on the counter. It just means that you as the human player have to change your approach to counter the AI.

This DOES happen in real life. Arsenal had a low European expectation and were able to beat sides such as Juve and Real who tried to attack them and left holes. However, Bolton, Middlesborough, Aston Villa etc. see Arsenal as a big team and try to shut down the game, attacking only on the counter and hitting Arsenal at their most vulnerable.

All it takes is changing a couple of sliders, playing a bit more attacking or a bit more defensively. A good tactic will work for a long time, but not if you don't make a few logical changes, such as playing narrower against teams that are coming at you, or playing a deeper defensive line to encourage cautious teams out of the penalty area.

But to be fair that's what being a soccer manager is.

I'm sorry, but that's bullsh*t. As I said above, Arsenal play excellently against big teams that want to attack them (Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Juventus etc.) but poorly against teams that don't (Aston Villa, Everton, Manchester City, CSKA Moscow etc.). Both are ranked very highly in the Premier League so both have to use tactics that attack but keep steady at the back.

There seems to be this myth floating around that says that Sir Alex Fergusson always plays the same tactic because he usually lines up 4-4-2. That's bloody nonsense. He plays differently against different sorts of opposition. You can't beat Barcelona playing the same way as you would against Forest Green.

This is acheivable, but gone are the days where you could just download a tactic and put the highlights on commentary only and come back to find the result on a plate. You have to make minor changes, like being more defensive when holding onto a lead or becoming more attacking when trying to force a result. This is what happens in real life and, while it may be frustrating, that's what the point of a simulation is.

Just take a few extra minutes to watch a game in extended highlights and actually manage a game rather than making a cup of tea. It's Football Manager, not Football Results Generator. You'll feel the benefit, trust me.

retired_bpx667

but to be fair its easier to get the players up for the bigger matches. dont forget that arsenal in their prime went unbeaten in the league (before selling to players and replacing them with inexperienced players).

i dont think sir alex always plays the same tactic but its almost the same, why change something that works, and that your players are used to (the more you practice the better you get).
if you play to your players strengths, and those players (rooney and Ronaldo) can turn games then not many changes are needed.

retired_janellewood86

but to be fair its easier to get the players up for the bigger matches. dont forget that arsenal in their prime went unbeaten in the league (before selling to players and replacing them with inexperienced players). </BLOCKQUOTE>

... and their European form was abysmal. They went unbeaten for so long with a steady squad and were ranked the top team in the country. So they could play a similar style against everyone and get results as nearly everyone played the same way against them. In Europe they didn't and they came unstuck.

They play roughly the same tactic, yes, but they do change it, and that's what the human player must do as well. Just because the changes are slight doesn't mean they're unnecessary or trite. Manchester United will play a different style against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge than they will against Watford at Old Trafford.

In FM07 terms, these changes may be simple, such as having one of their strikers hang back a little more, or playing wider to make space for them selves and encourage Watford out of their comfort zone. If they play the same way in both games they will underperform in at least one of those matches, if not both.

Overall, you're right. Manchester United keep roughly the same tactic and make slight changes to counter the opposition. But they do change, and this is not insignificant.

But a player's strengths change. For example, Ronaldo's strength is beating his man then putting in a cross. But what if the opposition mark him out the game? Or what if they have 10' 3" centre backs who muscle everyone out of the penalty area? Ronaldo's crosses and runs become useless. The style must change. It may be a simple change such as focussing passes through the middle rather than down the wings, but it's a change, and one that has to be made.

I'm not saying you need to totally rework your tactic. On the contrary, that's counter productive. But no manager keeps the same tactic and settings for every game. Hell, most won't keep the same settings for 45 minutes (unless they're absolutely blitzing the opposition). It doesn't take hours to do (once you know how your team works), but it is needed.