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I am considering starting my first LLM game with CM4 pretty soon, probably with a 2nd division greek team (that's the lowest CM4 goes in my country). I have only played one game with CM4 this far, managing a top greek team as "cheat-free" as possible (well...check consideration #1). As soon as I win the Champions Cup (maybe never), I would like to dive into LL with a new game.
But...can I?
Two major considerations are clouding my horizon:
1) Training issue
I have done and will continue to do extensive research on training schedules and the internal work of training. This is actually my "job" in the official greek CM4 research site (address in my profile), and may I add that I incredibly enjoy it.
Now, since my work on training is testing training schedules and coming up with algorithms and experiments to further improve them, I have gained insight on training that may not be acceptable for a true LLM.
So let me ask my first question. Is true LLM out of the question for me?
Just to clarify: I only use my own training schedules for my team. But I do run a lot of tests on training that let me know what works and what doesn't. So I can either have a good training for my team or have a bad schedule on purpose.
2) U21 bans
Well, in U21 teams players who get banned never get un-banned (at least in the greek league). So they never play any games, and thus they never improve that much.
While playing with the top greek club in my current non-LLM game, I use an editor to constantly unban all my U21 players, since my strategy is to never buy any "great players", but try to improve with training my youngsters instead. To be as fair as possible, I also keep un-banning all U21 players for all other greek teams too (they face the same problem). Is this acceptable in a true LLM game?
I can live with both answers in #2.
But if the answer to #1 is "NO", then no worries, I 'll just try to play a LL game the way that suits my conscience best. But I first wanted to check with the experienced LLMs, to see if I can also fulfil the typical LLM prerequisites.
Thanks for reading,
07-03-2003, 10:36 AM
LLM ethos, training and the spawn of satan Post #2
Well as far as I am concerned this seems a perfectly acceptable LL game. You deal with the ethics in your own way. I personally would have no problem with you using an editor to correct a fault in the game that has no bearing on players attributes or anything that changes the inherent difficultries of CM4 as written. Again I personally would have no problem with your training schedules as I use a pencil and paper to monitor players improvements (or the reverse) and tweak the training schedules from these results.
( Note: This answer in no way represents the views of the forum)
07-03-2003, 10:40 AM
LLM ethos, training and the spawn of satan Post #3
1) Hmmm, tricky one. I guess we all play with our tactics and training to see what works best, and continue to tweak. Saying that, what works at a good team, may not work so well at an under-resourced club. Stuck between the devil...
2) Hound SI continually until they fix it in a future patch. Until then, it's a no editors ever kind of place...
07-03-2003, 10:48 AM
LLM ethos, training and the spawn of satan Post #4
Managers IRL learn about training schedules when obtaining their coaching badges, so having knowledge about how to apply your skills in this area does not fly in the face of LLM, in my opinion. Whether you can use CM4 training schedules you have prepared and saved previously rather than creating new schedules when you begin a new game... personally I'd be inclined to create new schedules.
Although the use of editors are prohibited, you have highlighted a bug in the Greek Leagues. Mind you, have you checked to see if EP4 has fixed this? Have you reported this to Sigames?
You could play a different league, though, thus negating the need to use the editor
07-03-2003, 11:34 AM
LLM ethos, training and the spawn of satan Post #5
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rekwob Toille:
No. Both aren't LLM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Rek, I agree completely with you on the use of editors, but on the training point surely the same logic is applied here as to tactics: you don't use tactics except for those supplied as default, and amend those according to the strengths/weaknesses of the team (as dictated in the Guidelines thread), so you use the default training schedules which you amend depending on the needs of your squad, how many coaches you have, etc.
Surely you apply what you know about tactics to your formations before beginning a match. Is that any different to Lyssien applying his knowledge to training schedules?
07-03-2003, 11:43 AM
LLM ethos, training and the spawn of satan Post #7
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lloydrees:
although he tried to put it a "im not really cheating" kind of way.........
burn him! burn him!
spawn of satan........no excuse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I did that in my current non-LLM game, so no need for the fire.
I was just asking what to do in a future game the LLM way...
07-03-2003, 11:45 AM
LLM ethos, training and the spawn of satan Post #8
to be honest there arent "set rules" you can play the game how you like, you paid the £25, however even the word ed*%$r is frowned upon in these parts so stay away from them at all costs!
07-03-2003, 01:14 PM
LLM ethos, training and the spawn of satan Post #9
You sound like you've learnt your training methods yourself, so what's the problem? Most people probably do their own testing on what works and what doesn't, and of course I take my knowledge (albeit not much) into every new game I start.
As for the banning of players, I would just say tough luck really, until EP5, CM4 03/04 or whatever is released then nothing you can do.
But like other people have said, no-one's stopping you using the editor - but when you do, it ceases to be LLM.
07-03-2003, 01:49 PM
LLM ethos, training and the spawn of satan Post #10
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I have done and will continue to do extensive research on training schedules and the internal work of training.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exploring and developing your own tactics is encouraged in LLM. I can't see why the same can't be also expanded to include training. I had a bit of a lookie at what you have done and Lyssien, you have too much time on your hands.
As for the second question. Yeah it is tough titty. I agree that the error is a SI one, but there is no grey area with editors & LLM. It is black and white, no editors, period.
LLM ethos, training and the spawn of satan 
Until then, it's a no editors ever kind of place...
Most people probably do their own testing on what works and what doesn't, and of course I take my knowledge (albeit not much) into every new game I start.
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