ddong78

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lloydrees:
To be honest your saying that you are now at a disadvantage in the game because your best attribute is your training as you have run so many "tests" and if you use the ass man you loose out, well its just like those numpties from the TT forum who find a super tactic and then win everything with it.......
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Oh, no, my main "complain" is that I will have to devote myself into a game where I will have to abandon training completely. So a lot of the fun of the game will be lost for me, since I really like training my players (it is my favorite addition to CM4).

RobertHamburger

its true you do have to play your own game, but then again, this forum is about playing in a certain "style" and if you feel that the way you would like to play differs slightly from the way most people here play, carry on posting, just dont tell us about it!! Its not as if anyone can check can they.

ddong78

Exactly. No worries. You have answered all my questions, so I am perfectly happy.

RobertHamburger

in the words of basil brush... boom boom

KingsbayYHPE

This thread typifies what I believe is going wrong in the LLM Forum of late.

It's as plain as the nose on your face that Lyssien's technique is against the LLM Spirit, but still guys try to justify it.

It's got nothing to do with LLM "Hawks" and "Doves".

The bottom line is you're either LLM or you aren't. There's no middle ground.

If you try to use techniques to gain an advantage over the AI, then you're cheating. Pure and simple.

Rek touched on something I've been saying for years. LLM's not a medal. It's not an Elite Club that sets you up for a knighthood.

It's simply the way of playing CM that's closest to realistic as CM allows.

If you win. Great.

If you lose. So f*ckin' what?

You won't get pilloried for losing in here. You will get slated for cheating.

Sure, if you took over Leigh RMI IRL you wouldn't charge in with some untried training and tactic package, but you would, over the course of close-season and several games into the season, see what your players' strengths and weaknesses were and put them on a training regime and alter the tactics to suit these strengths and weaknesses.

That's the LLM way.

Not to use the PC equivalent of several decades to see what training or tactical package would ensure success.

Those of you who can't see the difference...are you sure you're posting in the right Forum?

retired_mikateko

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Are you just going to leave everything to the Assistant manager or are you going to deliberately use rubbish training schedules simple because in x seasons of your previous game you developed a good knowledge of how training works? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No and no. The knowledge I've gained has come from playing the game properly -- no simulated tests. After much experimenting -- on a week to week basis within the confines of a normal game -- I'm starting to get the hang of it. When the game issues are finally resolved and I can start my career game (again), I'll put what I've learnt down to "coaching clinics".

retired_laceyjay

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This thread typifies what I believe is going wrong in the LLM Forum of late.
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Actually, I think this My way or No way attitude is what's wrong. I accept the LLM guidelines, and play using them. But it seems that less and less areas of discussion are available in here.

I stopped posting for that reason. I was thinking about rejoining the forum, but honestly, what would be the point? There's just nothing left to talk about that won't get you burned.

i enjoyed updates. They were banned. I actually enjoyed the discussion stimulated by this thread, until it was sacrificed on the later of LLM purity as have been so many things.

The man comes to the forum politely, and rationally, and tries to have a meaningful discusion. Only to have his thread rubbished by a moderator no less. Now tell me again how welcoming and unhostile to newcomers this forum is?

ddong78

Iajafer,
I want to make something clear, in case some of you have not understood my intentions. I have run a lot of tests on training and training schedules, but I was not planning to test the training schedules I would use in the lower-league game.
I am not saying this would make things perfectly allright. As I said, I feel I already know too much about training, so even my untested schedules are bound to end up pretty good (and I certainly got that knowledge in a non-LLM way).

To me, this is "comparable" to starting a second LLM game in the same country, and then of course you know which players are possible candidates for good transfers in your team. Even if you scout them first, you cannot erase the fact that you know they will probably (but not surely) end up being good. It is the same for untested training in my case.

Of course there are differences in the two cases:
- You can play a second LLM game in a different league where players are different, while training is the same in all leagues.
- Player's abilities sometimes change from one game to the next, so a player that was excellent in your previous career may not be so excellent in the next one.
But still, nothing in this game is 100% repeatable, so this is not too different for training.

Iajafer, if I am not mistaken you called me a cheater. It may be so because of the work I have done on training, but maybe I have got a good excuse. I am just not allowed to say it in this forum (I have explained my reasons and motivation analytically in other fora).

There is a difference between being non-LLM and being a cheater. In the LLM guidelines I read something along the lines of "you should accept SI's claims about how the game works". This is what I have not followed in my current top-club game. This makes it non-LLM, and makes all my future games non-LLM too, but it certainly doesn't make it cheating.

PS. Although my knowledge about training (or anything else in the game) is certainly not comparable to the programmers' knowledge, it becomes clear in this thread that -for example-Marc Vaughan is by definition ineligible to play a true LLM game. I am not saying this as a comment, it is just an interesting observation.

RobertHamburger

For starters, what i believe you are saying is that you are testing algorithms to beat a program not to play the game, the point of LLM is still have fun remember, its just that you try to do it as realistic as possible. From what i have heard from people, these "super tactics" and therefore i believe "super training sessions" are not things that would probably work in real life, if you want to "beat" the game then go on, play the way you want, and if it happens to be in the lowest division of slovakia, then great.

For crying out loud the point is that we all learn from experience no one can deny it, but i believe that our experiences are somewhat realistic and i hardly deter from traditional formations, if you want to find some super tactic with 9 strikers then do so (sorry bout the tipping ). I just dont want to hear about it!

ddong78

Lloyd,

I hope I haven't said anything that people in here would not like to here.

No, what you understood is not accurate. I have not created new training session (hope I got it correctly, to me an example of a "session" is e.g. Overloading). My work has been about finding good training schedules using the EXISTING sessions offered by the game. That doesn't mean I use these schedules in my serious games, but it HAS helped me understand how training works.