retired_mushy02

Hi,

I've been reading a LOT threads these days and I've come across interesting stuff, but a lot of disagreement as well... that's good of course, since this a DISCUSSION board and we would have none without disagreements.

My question is what tempo you should choose your team to play, when you are playing against defensive opposition. Some say you should play slow in combination with short passing to create better chances. Others say you should play quick to avoid a goalless draw (defending opposition will let you have possession all you want and you won't get in their penalty area with slow tempo)...

My view on this is that you should play quickly against defending opposition, which has much less quality than your team (and who indeed only play for that 0 - 0), and that you should play slow against defending opposition who are in fact very good, but simply wait for the right moment to attack you...

Only thing I'm not yet sure of is if I would have to play quickly in combination with direct passing against weak, defensive opposition or that I could play quickly in combination with short passing... Your thoughts?

Thank you.

retired_azbee

I tend to have a lot of trouble versus teams like Sheffield United, who sit back and defend and play on the counter attack. I've tried playing slow and short, fast and short, fast and direct, slow and direct, wide (in different combinations), narrow(same), pushing up with offside, playing down the wings and a lot more. I just can't seem to find a consistent way of play versus defensive. So I would also like to know what tempo is best against defensive teams.

retired_mushy02

Well, in real life it's VERY hard to beat a side that just plays with ALL the players in the own area. They just build a wall and PREY for that 0 - 0. The only thing you can try (in real life) is play VERY wide, VERY quick and VERY short (long/direct balls will never make it because some defender will get to the ball anyway) with wingers making it to the byline and hopefully create some chances that way. Another option is to have your players (who are much better) run a lot with the ball and hope you get fouled a lot that way, maybe you'll score from a free-kick or penalty.

But that's real life. In FM, I'm not so sure. Like I said, I've seen people who claim you should play slow against defensive opposition...

retired_elpata

I play my normal game and use the tempo I always use. However after 30 minutes if my slow tempo isn't working, id tend to change it to a more faster one.

retired_mushy02

Well, I very much like that idea: starting from a very solid defence and play more attacking when you feel there are possibilities for a win. HOWEVER, one question I have for you Cleon with regard to tempo is this: elsewhere you explained that your defensive line is 6 and that you soak up the pressure, which comes in handy, because you play with Counter Attack on. Yet, your tempo is slow... How can you play Counter Attack with a slow tempo? I always thought that a Counter Attack was when you indeed soaked up all the pressure and then: BANG, within three seconds your were in front of the goal of your opponent. Can't imagine ever having seen a slow Counter Attack.

Can you please explain this? I would be thrilled if it was possible. Counter Attack always seems very effective, so is slow tempo (combined with short passing). The two of them together would rule.

Thanks for your efforts, Cleon.

retired_sandykats

Well I don't think tempo has anything to do with counter attack...you build up in the passing style is slow but a counter attack is always a COUNTER ATTACK...the team tries to play it as fast as possible...that's what I think

retired_mushy02

Well, at least we agree then, that a slow Counter Attack wouldn't make much sense

But IF that's true, why would anybody NOT tick counter attack? I mean, even if you want your teams to play a careful, slow (short) passing game, if they see the option of a deadly counter attack, you would want them to take it, wouldn't you?

retired_slayerbing

If you are playing against a very defensive side I'd suggest dropping your D-line and letting them come out more, play a little wider to makes some gaps and as for tempo probably slow so they are being forced to come out to you.

retired_sandykats

Yes that's true everybody would tick it...I think that when it is ticked the team tries to play as fast as possible and than they could make mistakes more easily...that's the only risk when you tick it I think...an effective CA is best with players with good creativity,passing and speed skills...that's also a criteria when selecting CA...

retired_mushy02

Yes that's true everybody would tick it...I think that when it is ticked the team tries to play as fast as possible and than they could make mistakes more easily...that's the only risk when you tick it I think...an effective CA is best with players with good creativity,passing and speed skills...that's also a criteria when selecting CA... </BLOCKQUOTE>

So we're back to square one: if you want to build up play slowly and carefully (without losing possesion all the time) you should leave 'counter attack' unticked... which brings me back to my question for Cleon, which was why he combines a slow tempo with counter attack and if it works for him (and how it works for him...do his players lose much possesion?).

So Ne Jebi: if what you say is true and if tempo has nothing to do with counter attack, at least the effect and purpose of a slow tempo (prevent needless loss of possesion) IS affected by ticking Counter Attack...

However, a combination SHOULD be possible and it's because of something Dayle Wood said: you can counter attack better when you lure your opponents to your side and you can do that best by slowly playing the ball around...

Still, I believe FM forces you to make a choice between a direct kind of play combined with the potentially effective counter attack (and the risc of losing posession) or a slow, short kind of play, which lets you have posession, but which also creates fewer chances...

I'm not sure though... please help.