andysafc

When i see screens like this i really wonder why i keep bothering with this game...
[img=http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/7209/bafflingqp3.th.png]]yet again[/URL]
Now i know someone is gonna say 'but that happens in real life' does it? Not according to the Sunday paper i read. I went through the stats for every division to see if i could see similar, that is similar not exact, stats with a similar scoreline. 40 odd games but nothing like it anywhere.
Anyway that is my rant over with for today, what i would like to discuss is...
Since it's appearence on the Amiga how far has CM/FM evolved?
In close to two decades people will say it's changed a lot. I couldn't help consider this when i was at the Sunderland v Hull match yesterday.
Watching dots on a screen and watching a real game from a tactical (and spectator) point of view is very different. So much so that i don't think the game during the two decades has changed that much at all. Graphically it's merely a polished version of 20 years ago.
Tactically the game has completely changed but i feel we really need to move away from the dots and watch a game that actually looks like watching football.
Maybe, just maybe, then i will be able to figure out why the above screen keeps happening.

trikztar

Hi

What I've been dreaming of for a long time is EA Games and SIgames teaming up, creating a hybrid of FM and Fifa Soccer (with or without the ability the play the matches yourself). Visually, the matches would be much more interesting and it would be a nice distraction from all the dry stats . In short - we get the tactical part of FM and the graphical part of Fifa. Ah well - that will probably never happen.

Anyway, this thread doesn't belong in tactics and training I guess...

stan1978

right i dont post much on here, but have been a member along time,from that screen shot,you have alot of shots off target so maybe you are telling players to shoot from long distance to much, maybe you are playing quick tempo so players are rushing there shots, could be a number of things, yes i am going to say it, it DOES happen in real life, maybe not this weekend, but it does.

andysafc

Stan1978: Sorry but your misunderstanding me, your answer is my tactics is wrong. My tempo is usually below the middle and the only players who have long shots are ones with the ability. But i'm NOT complaining about the tactics as generally i do ok.
I think the two biggest letdowns in this game are...
1) RE-RANKING You develope something that's working and suddenly your opponents regardless of their own ability have an uncanny knack of being able to stop you.
Roy Keane said this week that he does pick players depending on the opposition (ie horses for courses) but he keeps everything else simple. He added that earlier in the season if a team game to frustrate us he got annoyed when his own players started pumping long balls into the box.
Football is 90 mins he said and the players need to stay patient. How many games have Sunderland won in the last 15 minutes recently? Quite a lot.
2) GOALKEEPERS You can have the worlds best GK but sometimes his attributes appear to mean nothing. Yet your opponents G/K who could be the worlds worst keeper can preform far above what his attributes suggest.
Now i do know this DOES happen in real football but it doesn't normally effect the result.
Using Sunderland as an example again, so far this year they haven't lost a game but plenty of opponents have shown them respect (FM terms: re-ranking) but how many of those teams actually won the game? Answer = 0.
Yes it should be possible for any team to frustrate you but that should reflect in the result. Either they are narrowly beaton or they nick a draw. A 3-0 win???

andysafc

Another point i'd like to make is the scout report. It appears to me that people get success by studying your opponents style and then countering it.
I would say in real life this is true for underdog teams but should a team like Sunderland be looking at Southend and then change their game to counter them? I would say it should be the other way around.
I don't think the same tactic should work for different teams but i don't see why the same tactic especially if it has proved succesful, cannot work without constant tweaking for that team.
Your players attributes should be your tweaking and if it's not working you then bring on a sub to try and offer something different.

Zipflashly

Andy,
I'm with you on the last point-if you are the favourite, the opponents should be working out how to counter you not the other way round.

Yes, you should be aware of the opponent's threat and play certain players & formations accordingly but this whole 'they play passing so I have to play direct' idea is cack.(it may work mind but logical?)

At the moment I play one formation-set out in about 10 stages (the 'unbeaten combination'thread)but don't change the passing/tempo/width until I see how the game is panning out. I certainly don't counter my opponents-I do OK-not awesome but OK.

Now my big gripe is morale-I played a game last night I'm 4th in div 3 (as it should be called), they're 20th (same div)-my goalkeeper who has previously kept two clean sheets (and been praised with the rest of the team) is poor mentality. Their GK who lets in 2 a game on average is 'very good'. WTF! Have a look (for a laugh) at the teams at the bottom and see how their morale is-then compare it to yours if you hit a bad patch. Hmm. How does that happen? You're lower than a dachshund's donger and they're fine...

(**Awaits an SI loving sycophant to leap to their rescue**)

Acidblade

Morale of a player does not depend on just how he is peformed. I have found it changes due to team talks, how good team does and also morale of the whole team. You might your team talks are affecting ur team. Ask the assitant how your teamtalk are doing this gives you and indication.

Millie

All valid points, and I actually agree with a lot of it. Sunderland may not have deserved to score (I can't comment, I haven't seen the game), but Southend should not have scored 3.

I do think that in some instances there is a tactical issue, and people that suffer this effect constantly (and I mean more than five or six times a season) need to look at their setup. But it does happen at the strangest times.

I'm sure it's combattable, but not by logical means. Which leads me to my main gripe. Not enough feed back.

It's an annoying part of the game, but I still enjoy it. A lot of people who complain and rant don't seem to actually listen, and this is half the problem - it gives a false impression of what is still an excellent game.

At least you seem to have actually thought about this - I wonder, from some of the replies I've read today in other threads, whether this is the case of everyone.

Rafalution

I also have to agree to an extent. Maybe Southend could grab a steal and win 1-0, as such things do happen in real life. But 3-0 seems a bit harsh to me. I bet you pulled a lot of hair out during that game

andysafc

I seem to suffer my fair share of these huh?
I had just went 11 games unbeaton before this happened but what i'm going to show next is something i've never seen in 20 years.
The Sunderland defender picked up a clearence just outside the Sunderland box and then continued to walk right into the Sunderland goal!!!
I swear there was no QPR players within 30 yards and no more than one or two inside our half at all.
Here's the commentary to show what happened.
Does the AI cheat? It's hard to say no after watching this.