Realistic Attributes replacing CA/PA

retired_dellydoolittle · 01-30-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by playmaker:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Mitja:
I'm so tired of disccusing this metter, so I won't.

I told everything I had to up there. the only smart argument you can give me is that, the game needs this system, for now. and I can accept it. but it's not realistic

It IS realistic. What isn't realistic is the steady improvement of players, rather than peaks and troughs of improvement.

Promising players often turn out to be average or even poor later on. Looking at the PA is not meant to be part of the game. It's like reading the last page of a book, then complaining that the book is too predictable. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not looking at PA, but I assure AI does.

retired_dellydoolittle · 01-30-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sten_super:
CA and PA are the most realistic system I can ever see the game having. There are problems with it, but these need to be ironed out, not the whole system replaced.

Previously, players were all reaching their PA eventually. This was a problem, but has been reduced in FM08. IMO it still happens too much, but that's by the by.

Now, players don't seem to develop at realistic speeds. The standard of coaches/training doesn't seem to make any difference, and there are far too many 18 year olds that the scouts say 'isn't likely to improve in the future'. Players should be majorly influenced by the standard of training they receive, and the vast vast vast majority of players should improve between 18 and 21.

Also, CA and PA play too large a role in the performance of players, and the way they are judged by scouts. Scouts should see the same set of stats that we do, and make judgements on this. Player potential should be a lot more hit-and-miss: while you may be able to tell how much a player is likely to improve to a degree by looking at his work ethic or similar character traits, a lot of it comes down to looking at his ability compared to players of a similar age. My scout should be saying 'he is good at shooting now, and given that he is only 16 he has plenty of room for improvement. Sign him up', not looking at PA and judging accordingly (taking account of the random factor introduced by the scouts stats). Similarly, all game mechanics (i.e. in the match engine) should be based on attributes, not on CA. CA should be the constraining factor for his abilities (in the same way that PA should constrain his maximum possible attributes) but it should not be used by the AI as a judge of his ability.

:thup: stumostro read this....

retired_dellydoolittle · 01-30-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stumostro:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by stumostro:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Mitja:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by stumostro:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Mitja:
without CA/PA system, everything would be more realistic, you would have to gamble with transfers.....it's so stupid to have realy "promising" 18 year old kid but you just know he want be any good becouse his PA sucks, common...

Don't look at the PA then!!! That way its still a gamble!!! </BLOCKQUOTE>

you just don't get it. bye </BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't get what? That by using a pice of 3rd party software to look at a hidden stat its ruining the game because you know exactly whos good and whos bad??? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Also why do people put 'bye' at the end of a sentance when they don't agree with someone? Im entitled to an opinion just like you. If you don't want a discussion don't post anything. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I was pisted off becouse you didn't put any argument you said only this: "Another post where people think that everyone can be trained to be perfect!!!

There are certain things where you can't get any better hence to code a game correctly you need to give it a boundary hence PA."

what is this. argument? Dar2000 put some effort in his post and a quite good one I think. and you said. f... o... you s... m..... f.....

retired_2b135again · 01-30-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sten_super:
Also, CA and PA play too large a role in the performance of players, and the way they are judged by scouts. Scouts should see the same set of stats that we do, and make judgements on this. Player potential should be a lot more hit-and-miss: while you may be able to tell how much a player is likely to improve to a degree by looking at his work ethic or similar character traits, a lot of it comes down to looking at his ability compared to players of a similar age. My scout should be saying 'he is good at shooting now, and given that he is only 16 he has plenty of room for improvement. Sign him up', not looking at PA and judging accordingly (taking account of the random factor introduced by the scouts stats). Similarly, all game mechanics (i.e. in the match engine) should be based on attributes, not on CA. CA should be the constraining factor for his abilities (in the same way that PA should constrain his maximum possible attributes) but it should not be used by the AI as a judge of his ability.

Good points, I definitly think your on the right track but I dont think CA/PA is as realistic as it can get, as you have said previously

retired_denis · 01-30-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mitja:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by sten_super:
CA and PA are the most realistic system I can ever see the game having. There are problems with it, but these need to be ironed out, not the whole system replaced.

Previously, players were all reaching their PA eventually. This was a problem, but has been reduced in FM08. IMO it still happens too much, but that's by the by.

Now, players don't seem to develop at realistic speeds. The standard of coaches/training doesn't seem to make any difference, and there are far too many 18 year olds that the scouts say 'isn't likely to improve in the future'. Players should be majorly influenced by the standard of training they receive, and the vast vast vast majority of players should improve between 18 and 21.

Also, CA and PA play too large a role in the performance of players, and the way they are judged by scouts. Scouts should see the same set of stats that we do, and make judgements on this. Player potential should be a lot more hit-and-miss: while you may be able to tell how much a player is likely to improve to a degree by looking at his work ethic or similar character traits, a lot of it comes down to looking at his ability compared to players of a similar age. My scout should be saying 'he is good at shooting now, and given that he is only 16 he has plenty of room for improvement. Sign him up', not looking at PA and judging accordingly (taking account of the random factor introduced by the scouts stats). Similarly, all game mechanics (i.e. in the match engine) should be based on attributes, not on CA. CA should be the constraining factor for his abilities (in the same way that PA should constrain his maximum possible attributes) but it should not be used by the AI as a judge of his ability.

:thup: stumostro read this.... </BLOCKQUOTE>

What about it?

What he's saying is that scouts shouldn't just be looking at the PA, which i agree with and from what i have read before it is set so that the scouts don't get it right every time and from my experience they don't. They have recomended me players which have turned out to be duffers.

My main point is that doing away with CA/PA wouldn't work because there has to be a boundary for the game to work!

retired_roshawnda82 · 01-30-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dar2000:
Ben Foster another example, do you think in FM08 you could sign a reserve 22 year old goal keeper from a leauge one side that within 2 seasons will have played for England. Ok I admit, extremely rare irl aswel but possible.

As for no spine in the system, I can see your point but keeping the CA and doing away with PA would solve this surely?

That means the game starts with accurate research done but as the seasons go on anything can happen to players abilities as irl. We dont know whats going to happen in the future so why not make it the same in FM.

It baffles me to be honest considering the game has been around for so long and with what developers can do on computers now a days

Correct me if I'm wrong, but actually instead of removing PA, you're actually in reality suggesting that CA should remain as is and PA should be set to 200/unlimited for EVERY player? To me that is the effect of what you're saying.

retired_dellydoolittle · 01-30-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Law_Man:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Dar2000:
Ben Foster another example, do you think in FM08 you could sign a reserve 22 year old goal keeper from a leauge one side that within 2 seasons will have played for England. Ok I admit, extremely rare irl aswel but possible.

As for no spine in the system, I can see your point but keeping the CA and doing away with PA would solve this surely?

That means the game starts with accurate research done but as the seasons go on anything can happen to players abilities as irl. We dont know whats going to happen in the future so why not make it the same in FM.

It baffles me to be honest considering the game has been around for so long and with what developers can do on computers now a days

Correct me if I'm wrong, but actually instead of removing PA, you're actually in reality suggesting that CA should remain as is and PA should be set to 200/unlimited for EVERY player? To me that is the effect of what you're saying. </BLOCKQUOTE>

no. this is effect, now.

CA and PA are the most realistic system I can ever see the game having. There are problems with it, but these need to be ironed out, not the whole system replaced.

Previously, players were all reaching their PA eventually. This was a problem, but has been reduced in FM08. IMO it still happens too much, but that's by the by.

Now, players don't seem to develop at realistic speeds. The standard of coaches/training doesn't seem to make any difference, and there are far too many 18 year olds that the scouts say 'isn't likely to improve in the future'. Players should be majorly influenced by the standard of training they receive, and the vast vast vast majority of players should improve between 18 and 21.

Also, CA and PA play too large a role in the performance of players, and the way they are judged by scouts. Scouts should see the same set of stats that we do, and make judgements on this. Player potential should be a lot more hit-and-miss: while you may be able to tell how much a player is likely to improve to a degree by looking at his work ethic or similar character traits, a lot of it comes down to looking at his ability compared to players of a similar age. My scout should be saying 'he is good at shooting now, and given that he is only 16 he has plenty of room for improvement. Sign him up', not looking at PA and judging accordingly (taking account of the random factor introduced by the scouts stats). Similarly, all game mechanics (i.e. in the match engine) should be based on attributes, not on CA. CA should be the constraining factor for his abilities (in the same way that PA should constrain his maximum possible attributes) but it should not be used by the AI as a judge of his ability.

Realistic Attributes replacing CA/PA

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Realistic Attributes replacing CA/PA