Evil Man

Hi all,

I have read the forums with great interest on the subject of pre determined matches, playing a team 25 times and not winning, how that is statistically impossible etc, etc.

I must admit guys, i too was in a bad place with this, and my new monitor nearly experienced what it was like to fly...

A little background -

I am now at the end of the second season of the game, having been incharge of tottenham from the beginning.

My team is:

gk - robinson
dl - Pasqual
dr - Chimbonda
Dc - King
Dc - Juan
DMC - Kehl
AMC - Alex
AML - Guardado
AMR - Lennon
FC pace - Defoe
FC Heading - Berbatov

In my first season i won the league, league cup and FA Cup, but got tonked in the Uefa 5-1 by Werder.

Now, the second season. At the end I have won the league by 12 points, conceded 17 goals in the season and have Berb and Defoe on 30 goals each.

I have also won the league cup, am in the FA final and CL final.

There is a reason for this success, and it can be summed up in one word

CLEON.

His sheffield utd thread is fab.

To put in perspective......

I am a seasoned FM (and CM player) and have been playing for 13 years.

After winning in my first season with tottenham, I thought "here we go again!" - I had become disillusioned with how easy the game had become.

I noticed the game was a little tougher, but wanted more of a challenge......and by god i got one...

In the second season everything changed (which I now know to be reranking).

I started brightly, but hit a point where I lost a game. Not just any game. A game I should have won comfortably (1-8 favourites).

I accepted this and moved on (after all wigan do beat tottenham occasionally......).

This result somewhat grated me, and out of motivation to learn how I had lost, I reloaded and had another crack.

I played the game a further 15 times and on each occasion I lost......I felt my blood boiling!!!!

I downloaded tactics from here (CMaddict, min fuss, Wolverine and numerous others) to test to see if these were any more attackingly potent or defensively solid...but no..

I still couldnt win.

Conspiracy theories began storming my mind....why, why, why....

Then common sense prevailed. "its only a computer game, its only a computer game" became my mantra.

I thought about it logically.
What were my players actually capable of?

I read through the forums again, and stummbled across Cleons SU thread.

His results with SU made me think - he has had success over Man U and Arsenal with SU - HOW??

What Cleon pointed out hit me like a freight train.

THE SCOUT REPORT

It is essential to understand how the opposition plays in order to gain success. I had never used this facility on other versions, but i believe it to be THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOL in fm 07.

COUNTERATTACKING

If a team (from the report) is going to attack you - low team mentality, low defensive line, no fwd runs on fullbacks, play wide, play quick, play direct and counter.

UNDERSTANDING THE OPPOSITION

I have also noticed the the opposition changes their formation MANY MANY times in the game. REACT TO THIS.
The AI has changed for a reason, and that reason is that they are having no success against you.

PROTECTING A LEAD

If you go ahead - DEFEND - low team mentality, low defensive line, play quick, play the flanks and play quick and direct - counter....otherwiswe the opposition will attack you, and if you are attacking there will be so much space for them to expolit!

UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR PLAYERS CAN DO

I had read Cleons thread on SU and using a target man. His ideas were sound, but did not suit berbatov.

I now play with a target man (but his prefered moves are back to goal and to feet) so thats what I do - he loves it!

BE ADAPTABLE

During a game i noticed in the highlights there was lots of space down my oppositions left.

I shifted my tactics....

I put defoe on the FL position, took any arrows off my ML and changed defoes crossing to often and aim to centre.

My team tactics were then focused down "focus left flank"

Defoe recieved the ball so much and Berbatov grabbed a brace!

Using this common sense approach I have:

Been 2-3 down to Arsenal at halftime and won 5-3
Beaten barca 2-0 away
Am defensively solid
Very creative.

Granted I get the occasional 0-0 with lower league teams who "park a bus infront of goal" but my love for the game has reblossomed!

Excellent thread Cleon, and to all of you who think the game is pre determined (it probably is_ but its a program, and programs have variables...."manage" your team and success should follow.

It will happen, just persevere, and once you begin to get success, it is such a great reward.....

FrazT

Good points which most of the posters who have tried to work at tactics will agree wholeheartedly with and the posters who moan that they cannot win with Chelsea will not understand at all.

The Lambs

Glad to see your having fun again. Did you ever win that game against wigan?

I struggle to break down the "bus parked infront of goal" opposition as well.

I have tried:

1) Ultra defensive and counter attack to try and draw them onto me and hit them on the break.

2) Fast tempo and normal tactics.

3) Turning long shots on all my front players and praying.

4) All out attack.

So far I can't find a way to get a result, it seems if they want a nil-nil draw, unless you can get that first goal your scuppered and if you do get the first goal you can nail them for a few more.

Had an opposing team have all its defenders and goal keeper on 8's and 9's last night while its forwards had 5's and 6's.

If anyone finds a reliable way for a top team to break this style of play down, please let me know.

I can't wait for Cleon's sheffield united to get re-ranked so I can learn from the master how he will do it.

Evil Man

I did win the wigan game in the end - as soon as i thought about it logically....

In terms of the really defensive teams...

I tend to do very well from set pieces, especially corners..

With these teams I play attacking, high tempo and mixed passing - but very, very wide.

Also at half time i'll look at which players are out of the game, for example - if my ML only has made like 3 passes and is on a 6, i assume he is either being marked out of the game, or we might be too wide - and make the neccesary adjustments...

I have gone 2-3-5 before now and played quick, narrow and long - using a TM - I tend to get around 10 corners a game, and can usually nod one in with a CB "nr post flick" and corners set to near post..

Then i hit defensive (notch 2 from left) - deep line and counter attack - ensuring no fullback runs and change to quick, direct and wide - using the flanks...

Then dont concede and happily take the 1-0

Cleon

I find it hard, but easy at the same time if that makes sense? By that I mean, it might take a few chances before I put the ball away, but I am always confident I can win.

I play 1 of 2 ways against these teams,

Attack, direct passing and fast tempo. This is ideal for creating chances, and because the opposition site deep it allows me to play like this.

Attacking, mixed passing and fast tempo. Same as above but a much more varied passing range, as sometimes its hard to play direct when the opposition are camped in their own half.

Kinda pointless as they are sat deep waiting for you to attack them. You set up needing the oppoistion to come onto you, yet they don't dont because they are set up the same, waiting for you to attack them. Gmes like this create very little chances.

I find this can help, but if you still not getting enough chances its obvious you need more empthasis on attacking mentality.

Id never do that, as all your shots will be 18+ yards. You could maybe slow the tempo and see if that suits your side better. For some sides they are suited to more fast tempo, some a more patient build up.

Hmm... I tend to use this sparingly in a match, maybe the last 10-20 mins if its still 0-0 and the other side not threating you.

It doesn't happen as big as people think, so it will make little difference at best. I am looking forward to the 2nd half of the season if I continue my form, as it will get easier when teams defend against me.

The Lambs

Cheers for the prompt reply Cleon.

I think I will just have to live with the fact that I can't score in every game.

Your tactic for breaking them down is my usual style of play.

On a slighly different note, I have noticed that recently the main text in the second paragraph of all of my next opponents reports is the same. It would appear that regargless of their formation, and who they are, they all have the same style of play, from memory it is counter attack and they like to get the ball down and play it. I only became aware of it because of how different all your scout reports are from each other.

It goes on to let me know if they have fast strikers or a good defence ect, but the basic stlye is identical. I am running two teams on the same save and it would appear to be the same for both.

I'll take some screen shots later (after work)and post them up.

Anyone else noticed this?

Evil Man

Fredric Drum

I'm also seeing this with scout reports. They're almost all of them 4-4-2 defensive, many with counter attack, and they like to have the ball and play it. Except for Juventus, who play with one striker to devastating effect against me

Now, for example, I got a report on Napoli, and they're playing 4-4-2 Defensive counter attack, and I don't know what to do that I'm not already doing in every match.

Taunton

How do you set up the TM this way? (Back to goal and to feet?)

tegansstuff

And here was me thinking that tactical consistency was a good thing. I rarely change my tactics mid-match, maybe that's why I lose the occasional match lol.