iranianboy27!

I think the tactical problem lies within the fact that earlier versions of this game (05/06) had bugs in them that allowed people to create unbeatable 'Diablo' style tactics.

For me winnign every game this way is boring, unchallenging, and lacks skill. BUT alot of people love to play this way, fair enough, winning is obviously fun, and so use these types of tactics, use FMscount and FMM and trault the forums begging for 'world beating' tactics and complaining that the game can't be beaten.

Simple truth is FM08 is the most realistic version of the game to date, and also deceptively simply....There are not world beating tactics anymore because (as discussed in hunfreds of threads) the best way to play is to simply setup your team to counter whatever your next opposition is playing....essentialy have a different tactic every game.

This IS what happens in real life, no manger says....yeah just go otu and play the exact same way as before! They guess how the opposition will play, watch videos and examin there players, and then they arrange their team to suit.

Juade Ramos commented on this in an interveiw earlier this week, pointing out that such tactical play isn't so rife in Spain but you really have to work hard as a manager here and the big teams like Arsenal and Man U win because of there constant tactic tweaking.

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So tactics do play a big part, but there isn't A TACTIC that works and nor should there ever be.

However I'd say tactic never make up more than 50% of a perfromance...moral is one of the biggest factors in this game, along with form, player relatins, team relatiobns, coaching and much more.....there is no single wnning formula....so stop asking for one!

Cheers,
Fuss.

retired_dellydoolittle

exellant :thup:

I like the reality of FM08 also, at least reality of resoults. not the way they occure. FM08 has the potential to be what you wrote, it isn't at the moment due to too many chances created by some tactics and stuff like that...

but I defenetly like it much more then FM07, at least for it's realism. person must agree what you wrote about tactics; IRE and FM. I think what some people want to say (including me) is that how tactics are represented in this game. there is so much space for improvement, but I don't want to talk about it now.

yes, "tactics do play a big part, but there isn't A TACTIC that works and nor should there ever be". amen.

it also means that maybe the last big tactical revoultion happened with "total football". of course football is progressing, maybe on yearly basis. but what would I like to say is that "major tactical suprises" are extremly rare these days (was Greece winning euro last?). that's maybe where FM failed a little, not that it is too hard to win, some odd things are happening . that's why I think it's time that FM tactical side moves on. no I don't want to win CL with Derby, I would like this game to be even harder but tactiacal system must change, just like ME's changing every year...it doesn't support it anymore.

it would be much easier to me if I could speak my lenguage to describe this metter, but I hope you still get my point.

retired_roshawnda82

Your English is absolutely fine Mitja :thup: And if anyone says any different ask them how they are at speaking/writing the language that you speak

retired_roshawnda82

Some of what you say holds water, but on the flip side often by users I think there's a tendency to over-complicate the tactical side (even if they feel that they have to do that or else they'll never win) or even worse, a lot of users probably create tactically inept and illogical tactics, meaning that at best if they've got players they won't achieve what they're capable of and at worst of they've got poor players.....disaster.

The points you make are valid and welcome, the only thing I'd say is this thread isn't intended to descend into a moan about the game in general, so can we avoid trying going down that path.

retired_elpata

Added this to the tactics bible

Mitja and minimal fuss you make some very good points in your last post's and sum it all up pretty good in my opinion.

retired_nel1603

Cloughie was the greatest manager ever.

Bill Struth was one of the truly great manager s many years ago he left the tactics largely to his Captain.

PLayers win games. Tactics are far to important in FM08.

retired_ladylimdiddy

It is true that managers IRL do change small details for different matches, sometimes they will make more drastic changes also, even the top managers with the top teams.

Take Ferguson at Man Utd for example, the majority of games against sides he knows they are stronger than he will not worry about them too much. Yes he will study the opposition and make his players aware of the danger men and where the opposition's strengths and weaknesses are.

But other than that it would be the opposition that would be worrying and changing tactically more to stop them than vice-versa. This is where I feel this game is slightly different.

It seems to be ALL about countering the opposition which to a degree is realistic but just abit over the top the drastic affect it can have on the outcome of matches.

Tactics are important IRL yes, to give your side that edge over the opposition, not the drastic things we see happening in FM.

retired_elpata

In another thread I saw you post that you thought the AI changed tactics too much in a game. That is the opposition countering you...or its something you've done in your game thats forced them to make alterations. It's then up to you to make very slight changes again so your not caught off guard.

Some of the drastic changes you might see in game could stem from you not doing anything when the AI changes. I'm not saying it is, but its what a lot of people experience.

IRL when a club changes the way it plays do you think the opposition just stay how they are? The manager will give certain players different duties to do depending. But we don't see these small changes due to us not been in the dressing room or can't always hear what instructions they are been told to carry out on the touch line.

For every problem you encounter there is a solution.

retired_ladylimdiddy

I do agree with most of that, I just feel the whole tactical sensitivity is just abit too high in my opinion

retired_elpata

I actually agree that it can be sensitive at times. But I guess that's the downside of it being just a game and not actual RL. SI have to implement things the best they can and I guess for now the sliders are the only real option of trying to create some sort of realism and the only way of giving us as much of total control over our tactics as possible.

Some people like the sliders some don't, but no matter what there is always going to be some sort of control system that allows us to alter things