Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '07

GeorgeCostanza · 10-19-2006, 06:35 PM

Very useful reading. Thanks very much! :thup:

retired_jissca812 · 10-19-2006, 10:05 PM

Right, I'm going to buy FM07 tomorrow, and I almost always play with Manchester United and England. I just need a few pointers as a start to implement my first TT&F tactic.

First, I take it you play with two tactics, a home and an away version?

First, I'll go through what I have picked up should be the settings for the home tactic.

Tempo: 15 (fast)
TimeWasting: 5 (rarely)
Width: 15 (Wide)
Defensive Line: 5 (deep)?

GK: Mentality 14
CF/CD: 5

CDs: Mentality 6
Closing Down 17
Creative Freedom 3
Passing 14

Everything set to rarely, except through balls which is mixed

DMC: Menality 8
Closing Down 15
Creative Freedom 5
Passing 12

Forward Runs Mixed
Through Balls Often
Long Shots Often
Both Cross + Run with ball rarely
Hold up ball

DL/DR: Mentality 10
Passing 10
Creative Freedom 5
Closing Down 15

Everything mixed, except cross ball which is often

ML/MR

Mentality 12
Passing 8
Closing Down 10
Creative Freedom 10

Forward Runs, Cross Ball and Run with ball often, everything else mixed

FC1 : Mentality 14
Passing 6
Creative Freedom 15
Closing Down 5

Forward Runs, Through Balls often, everything else mixed (I plan to make this player Wayne Rooney, and give him a Free Role). Hold up ball as well

AMC: Mentality 16
Passing 4
Creative Freedom 15
Closing Down 5

Forwards Runs, Through balls, long shots often cross ball rarely, run with ball mixed

FC2: Mentality 18
Passing 2
Closing Down 5
Creative Freedom 15

Forward Runs often, everything else mixed

Please tell me if T've got anything wrong for the home tactics.

I've read how to counter the 3-3-2-1-1, so I should be okay when I encounter that.

Also, what changes do I need to make throughout the season? What should the away tactics be?

Sorry if the answers to these questions are further up in the thread wwfan. If I can understand everything about the TT&F tactics, I may have the most fun I've had in a long time with FM. I barely complete more than a couple of season's these days because I struggle so much with tacics.

So please help me to fully understand the TT&F tactics. I'm enthusiastic about the TT&F all of a sudden, and I'm very willing to put the time in to get my tactics working like they should.

Thanks in advance for the help wwfan, and I hope you enjoy 07 as much as you enjoyed 06. :thup:

zyx345 · 10-19-2006, 10:56 PM

great to see you've started a new thread for FM07 wwfan. thanks for mentioning me and i was glad to help out in doing some of the testing. please let me know if you want any other testing done as i'll be glad to help out.

most importantly of all, keep an eye on wycombe! (try developing the paul lambert 3-5-2 when you get FM07

)

retired_feistyfox · 10-19-2006, 11:17 PM

wow nice thread good job so far guys

retired_mgavlick · 10-20-2006, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Noel Gallagher:
That's a great read!!

I don't like nit-picking, but can I just say, there's no such thing as closing down of 0. The scale is between 1 & 20.

Sorry, I was tired. It was late when I wrote that and I hadn’t had enough caffeine during the day to support me. Glad you enjoyed the post.

Quote:

Originally posted by Asmodeus:
I think rule of two could really excel in this version. Hell, I might even get round to setting it up myself.

Great post as always. :thup:

From the response of two FMers who hadn’t used it in ‘06 and then turned to it in the ‘07 Demo, you could well be right.

Quote:

Originally posted by Miksu:
Really great post, thanks.

Was wondering though about the RoT and the use of forwards. I like to use one good header as a target man and set everyone to cross ball to his head. In this guide FC has a mentality of 14 and ST 18 so the difference is quite large. Which one of these should be my target man if I want the player to drop balls to a faster forward? I presume ST with a mentality of 18 is the better choice? If I set FC as my target man, I don't think I should put him to hold up the ball, like suggested later in the guide.

I don’t use a target man as I feel it limits attacking options. However, I think you could choose either alternative. The deeper FC may be able to flick on headers or hold up the ball if played to feet. Neil Purvis used to get really frustrated that this wouldn’t work in ’06, so it would be interesting to see if it does in ’07.

A quick ST could also reap dividends with balls played for him to run on to. It’s a matter of trial and error. It would be great if you could post any findings on target man.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tottenham Ecomax:
I think that testings made at 3-10-17 will show effects better than 5-10-15. 5-10-15 would be good in a 0-5-10-15-20 scale but this would generate far more tests.

I don't like direct passing, not even for defenders. I concluded that direct passing leads to quick loose of possession; You cannot control the game so well. But I am aware that a lot of other people use them currently (at least for the defenders).

My logic says that for players with low decision not only fix a low CF but also try to avoid "mixed" instructions. For low decision players, instructions should be clear and try to minimize the number of situation where he must decide. On opposition, players with high decision must have a lot of "mixed" instructions because they will decide well in most occasions.

I don’t like extreme slider settings, but feel free to test and post findings on the increased scale. They would be very interesting.

Direct passing is very possession friendly in a RoT system. The defenders and the MCd/DMC play a lot of keep ball between them while the attack looks for space.

I agree with this, and decision making must be taken into consideration when tweaking tactics for specific sets of players.

Quote:

Originally posted by bean feast:
Sorry to put a downer on everything, but this is a new game. Isn't it all a bit naive to claim that the FM06 frameworks are going to succeed here? My suggestion is that you have to start afresh. Since wwfan, you have not even played the game, I am not sure you can judge as yet. For example, you claim time wasting should be on 15 for a defensive away formation, but one of the in-game hints of 07 claims that high time wasting is extremely dangerous until the end of the match.
Please do NOT see this as me putting you down in the slightest. Your previous theories are magnificent for the lesser tacticians out there, and a lot of it makes sense. I am a skeptic though and I don't want the 06 engine to be the same as 07 since it did have its flaws. I really look forward to your new input into 07 but I really hope you observe this as a new game and your observations are not clouded by 06.

You are right. I envisioned this thread as a start-up for ’07 that would minimise the frustrations that many had when they began playing ’06. I don’t regard it as ’07 gospel and tried to make that point clear in the disclaimer. Like Asmo said, ‘this could lead to a rethink of several areas of theory from the game's predecessor, which is, I'm sure, what wwfan wanted to discuss within this thread.’

It’s interesting you mention time wasting as I remember having a discussion with PaulC about its over-effectiveness in ’06 while I was beta testing the 6.0.2 patch. He said there was nothing they could do about it in ’06 but he would look at it for ’07. I guess they have and my advice on time wasting needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt in case I’m VERY wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by mr.rooney:
This is such a cracking read that I believe that it should be required reading before newbies enter the forum to ask the inevitable (why can't I win?) questions.

It has been such a joy reading your posts. You have contributed so much that you deserve a life-time holiday!

Seriously, the forums would be very dull without your posts, and I believe that I have learned so much about the game through your hard work.

I've never really used your theories before though. There always seemed to be certain contradictions in it to me. It seemed to relay on lots of changing tactics, whereas I generally tend to follow the 'slider apathy' template, where you can make quick and easy changes to your team.

Now though, I might just try the ROT and see how it goes.

Thanks a lot wwfan :thup:

This is really answering your next post, but it was too long to quote. I think you have the basics pretty much sorted. There are elements you may wish to tweak for certain players. For example, if you have an FB with great passing but low crossing it would probably be best to give him higher Through Balls and lower Crossing. I’m sure you can make the right tweaks to the right players.

For away tactics I tend to employ a low CD (5) system to hold shape, with counter attack ticked. The mentality system is the same as previously. The idea is to soak up pressure and launch lightning raids. I used two systems, a 4-2-3-1 a la Benitez (long farrowed wingers) and a 4-4-2 Diamond with sarrowed FCs and no farrows at all. You will need to read over FRs too, as limiting them for defensive players is very important. Try playing about with those and see what happens. I’d be interested in hearing about any success/failure you have.

I hope you have as much fun as you are anticipating.

For everyone else that posted, thanks for the kind words.

retired_jissca812 · 10-20-2006, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wwfan:

This is really answering your next post, but it was too long to quote. I think you have the basics pretty much sorted. There are elements you may wish to tweak for certain players. For example, if you have an FB with great passing but low crossing it would probably be best to give him higher Through Balls and lower Crossing. I’m sure you can make the right tweaks to the right players.

For away tactics I tend to employ a low CD (5) system to hold shape, with counter attack ticked. The mentality system is the same as previously. The idea is to soak up pressure and launch lightning raids. I used two systems, a 4-2-3-1 a la Benitez (long farrowed wingers) and a 4-4-2 Diamond with sarrowed FCs and no farrows at all. You will need to read over FRs too, as limiting them for defensive players is very important. Try playing about with those and see what happens. I’d be interested in hearing about any success/failure you have.

I hope you have as much fun as you are anticipating.

For everyone else that posted, thanks for the kind words.

So that's closing down at 5 for everyone, including the defensive players? I'm assuming that even when you're away, you would switch to heavy closing down if you came across the 3-3-2-1-1? Also, didn't you mention earlier that for away you focus the passing down both flanks?

The only other thing I need to look out for is limiting the forwards runs for defensive players, right? I also keep the mirroring the same, and the deep defensive line for the away tactics aswell. Is that right?

Thanks for the help. :thup:

PS. You say you don't have your PC at the moment. How do you manage to log onto the forums and answer if you don't have your PC, out of interest?

retired_mgavlick · 10-20-2006, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr.rooney:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by wwfan:

This is really answering your next post, but it was too long to quote. I think you have the basics pretty much sorted. There are elements you may wish to tweak for certain players. For example, if you have an FB with great passing but low crossing it would probably be best to give him higher Through Balls and lower Crossing. I’m sure you can make the right tweaks to the right players.

For away tactics I tend to employ a low CD (5) system to hold shape, with counter attack ticked. The mentality system is the same as previously. The idea is to soak up pressure and launch lightning raids. I used two systems, a 4-2-3-1 a la Benitez (long farrowed wingers) and a 4-4-2 Diamond with sarrowed FCs and no farrows at all. You will need to read over FRs too, as limiting them for defensive players is very important. Try playing about with those and see what happens. I’d be interested in hearing about any success/failure you have.

I hope you have as much fun as you are anticipating.

For everyone else that posted, thanks for the kind words.

So that's closing down at 5 for everyone, including the defensive players? I'm assuming that even when you're away, you would switch to heavy closing down if you came across the 3-3-2-1-1? Also, didn't you mention earlier that for away you focus the passing down both flanks?

The only other thing I need to look out for is limiting the forwards runs for defensive players, right?

Thanks for the help. :thup:

PS. You say you don't have your PC at the moment. How do you manage to log onto the forums and answer if you don't have your PC, out of interest? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Closing down to 5 for all. I usually keep the DMC on 15, but he may be more useful on 5 as well as he is likely to hold position in front of the back line then. Experiment with both and see what suits. I do pass down the flanks to a) exploit the channels as the AI FBs push forward, and b) keep the ball away from danger areas when I'm in possession near my own box. And yes, limiting forward runs for defensive players is KEY! Play a higher defensive line as it limits space and keeps your team in a compact formation. The d-line of 5 that you suggested using is lower than I use at home (I tend to employ 10) but it would be interesting to know how successful it is. In theory, it shopuld work very well.

If you come across any defensive system (3-3-2-1-1, 4-1-4-1, 4-4-2 no farrows) then employ the home system. The likelihood is that you will face it more and more as your reputation gets better and better. Look for the AI reverting to 4-4-2 long farrows or the 4-2-4 as indicators to employing a more defenisive system.

I have a work PC which I can't install FM on but I can still use it to access the forums.

retired_jissca812 · 10-20-2006, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wwfan:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by mr.rooney:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by wwfan:

This is really answering your next post, but it was too long to quote. I think you have the basics pretty much sorted. There are elements you may wish to tweak for certain players. For example, if you have an FB with great passing but low crossing it would probably be best to give him higher Through Balls and lower Crossing. I’m sure you can make the right tweaks to the right players.

For away tactics I tend to employ a low CD (5) system to hold shape, with counter attack ticked. The mentality system is the same as previously. The idea is to soak up pressure and launch lightning raids. I used two systems, a 4-2-3-1 a la Benitez (long farrowed wingers) and a 4-4-2 Diamond with sarrowed FCs and no farrows at all. You will need to read over FRs too, as limiting them for defensive players is very important. Try playing about with those and see what happens. I’d be interested in hearing about any success/failure you have.

I hope you have as much fun as you are anticipating.

For everyone else that posted, thanks for the kind words.

So that's closing down at 5 for everyone, including the defensive players? I'm assuming that even when you're away, you would switch to heavy closing down if you came across the 3-3-2-1-1? Also, didn't you mention earlier that for away you focus the passing down both flanks?

The only other thing I need to look out for is limiting the forwards runs for defensive players, right?

Thanks for the help. :thup:

PS. You say you don't have your PC at the moment. How do you manage to log onto the forums and answer if you don't have your PC, out of interest? </BLOCKQUOTE>

Closing down to 5 for all. I usually keep the DMC on 15, but he may be more useful on 5 as well as he is likely to hold position in front of the back line then. Experiment with both and see what suits. I do pass down the flanks to a) exploit the channels as the AI FBs push forward, and b) keep the ball away from danger areas when I'm in possession near my own box. And yes, limiting forward runs for defensive players is KEY! Play a higher defensive line as it limits space and keeps your team in a compact formation. The d-line of 5 that you suggested using is lower than I use at home (I tend to employ 10) but it would be interesting to know how successful it is. In theory, it shopuld work very well.

If you come across any defensive system (3-3-2-1-1, 4-1-4-1, 4-4-2 no farrows) then employ the home system. The likelihood is that you will face it more and more as your reputation gets better and better. Look for the AI reverting to 4-4-2 long farrows or the 4-2-4 as indicators to employing a more defenisive system.

I have a work PC which I can't install FM on but I can still use it to access the forums. </BLOCKQUOTE>

I mentioned a d-line of 5 because that's what you mentioned to use if you came across a 3-3-2-1-1. I'll use a d-line of 10 for home and away and see how that goes.

Finally (It must so annoying having me question everything), you keep the same mentality/passing style/creative freedom for both home and away, correct?

And now, I'd better go to bed. I'm going into town to get FM tomorrow, but at this rate I won't even get up until midday.

Thanks for the help. :thup:

retired_mgavlick · 10-20-2006, 01:39 AM

Quote:

I mentioned a d-line of 5 because that's what you mentioned to use if you came across a 3-3-2-1-1. I'll use a d-line of 10 for home and away and see how that goes.

Finally (It must so annoying having me question everything), you keep the same mentality/passing style/creative freedom for both home and away, correct?

And now, I'd better go to bed. I'm going into town to get FM tomorrow, but at this rate I won't even get up until midday.

Thanks for the help. :thup:

I tended to use a d-line of 10 at home, even against the 3-3-2-1-1, and 14 away, so it wasn't so different. I would love to hear how 5 works though.

Mentality/passing/creative freedom is the same home and away.

retired_jissca812 · 10-20-2006, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wwfan:
<BLOCKQUOTE> I mentioned a d-line of 5 because that's what you mentioned to use if you came across a 3-3-2-1-1. I'll use a d-line of 10 for home and away and see how that goes.

Finally (It must so annoying having me question everything), you keep the same mentality/passing style/creative freedom for both home and away, correct?

And now, I'd better go to bed. I'm going into town to get FM tomorrow, but at this rate I won't even get up until midday.

Thanks for the help. :thup:

I tended to use a d-line of 10 at home, even against the 3-3-2-1-1, and 14 away, so it wasn't so different. I would love to hear how 5 works though.

Mentality/passing/creative freedom is the same home and away. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks. I promise you this is the very last question. Earlier in the thread you said that for away games you change the width to 5 and timewasting to 15. Is this what you do, or have I read wrong? :thup:

Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '07

It's no use having a squad full of star players without a decent way for them to play their football.

Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '07