retired_l_blum

I've posted this also on FM-B and FMFan, and I think it's interesting tor you...

Author of tests - Maks from FMFan

So, after extensive tests I can say that we all live in world of myths, and now i can describe you why...

here you can find some my conclusions after tests.

When I tryed to find the relationship between training and increasing of skills, i found that... There are no relationship between training shedules and skills' rising...

Theorems:
1. Ability is the most important feature influencing the growth of the player's skills.
2. Current ability +12 = all skills +1
3. Growth of ability depends on the player's age and more of the difference between CA and PA, but not depends on the training shedules.
4. Only if workload in training category is <6, then you can see that skills can fall.
5. The overall training's workload responsible for the growth of the CA.
6. The lowest skills increase slightly quicker.
7. When your team have poor training conditions or when you send player on oan, skills fall.
8. Growth of player skills is not dependent on the skills of coaches.

that's a quick summary

See it in detail.

1. Test
Patch 8/01 Gold
Manual and holiday tests
League: Portugal
team: Maritimo
training facilities: 12 + Youth academy
Coaches: (3), all skills = 12 + (1 GK coach) + (1 fitness coach)
three stars in every training shedules, every coach assign on 2 training shedules
Three players pick up for a test: defender, DM and striker
One season 02/07/07 - 02/06/08

2. Player profile
I analyse player profile in FMM.
A large number of skills changes from 0 to 100, some skills change from 0 to 20.
So, if skill in FMM = 50 (for example), than in FM = 10. When skill in FMM = 55, skill in FM = 11

http://www.fmfan.ru/files/shevelevee/preview/prof.jpg

In our test we work with FMM' skills, because it is more easy to see changing of skills.

3. Ability
It is not a secret that ability is the main description - ability (potential and current).
Potential ability is the limit of player development.
Current ability show current player level.
Let's start with ability testing.

On the start we have three players:

Evaldo (125 CA/140 PA) - 25 years old
Olbedram (122/140) - 22
Ytalo (94/138) - 19

One season with default trainings :

Evaldo (133 CA/140 PA)
Olbedram (132/140)
Ytalo (109/138)

We tryed to change all hidden skills and results didn't changes
After some similair season with default training we see that only player's age and x=PA-CA can change speed of ability rising. We change player's age and what we see:

Ytalo - 19 years - +15ability/season
Ytalo - 23 years - +6 ability/season
Ytalo - 30 years - +0ability/season

Evaldo - 25 years - x(PA-CA)=15 - +8 ability/season
Evaldo - 25 years - x(PA-CA)=55 - +17ability/season

Now - the most interesting in this. When CA=+3, then all skills +1 (in FMM) = =+0.25 (in FM), except determination, aggression, pace, agility, balance, acceleration, which rise slowly and all poor skill - they rise quickly).

http://www.fmfan.ru/files/shevelevee/preview/ytal.jpg

Part 2. Training schedules.

Now let's proceed to the training schedules. What effect they have on rising of skills?

Before the beginning of tests I thought that they MUST to have effect on rising of skills. But it's true only in part.

However hard I tried to change training shedules, I didn't manage to increase rising of separate skills.

For example I try to set "shooting" training for striker, but all skills rise on the same rule: +3 CA = +1 skill.

But you can make different skills go down. It's easy. Simply set sliders of any training schedules below 6 and skills start to go down.

Frankly speaking, it seems strange to me, it's unbelievable! It's impossible that training schedules do not have effect on finishing of skills. And I discovered that dependence.

Trainings influence on rising of Current Ability. Overall training loading directly influence on rising and falling of Current Ability of player.

For example, I changed overall loading for Ytalo.

light loading - +12 ability in season
medium loading - +15 ability in season
the last medium position - +17 ability

there do not appear to be sufficient reasons for setting Hard and Very Hard loading - rising of ability does not increase, but there will be more injuries.

Rising of ability depend on the player age and difference between PA and CA. When your team have poor training conditions or when you send player on loan, skills fall.

Part three. The end.

Coaches
There was last hope, that coaches will solve though something, unfortunately the hope has died quickly enough. As there was, an increase in coaches up to « on one on training category », their increase of attributes up to maximal has not given me any positive dividends, has not happened neither faster attributes growth, nor CА growth, such impression, that only significant reduction of all coaches or increase in their loading up to 3-4 training category on the brother can force though somehow to affect on CА, and that is natural aside reduction.
And a last, I spread a screen where at the left at a team superb coaches on each category with 7 stars, the maximal training base, and on the right which I spoke conditions right at the beginning, the training category thus identical:

http://www.fmfan.ru/files/shevelevee/preview/srav.jpg

This everything, that I wished to tell on trainings in this article if it is fair I am very upset and even thought to not write it, to not upset others. If someone, can prove to me in figures and screens, that I am not right, only I shall be glad to this, since to me, after 30 runs under various conditions of such chance it was not gave.


If you want, I can give you all screenshots you need and answer all your questions.

retired_hilltopdaisy

>Nice read :thup: :thup:

retired_britttakneee

Good post.

Sorry for rookie questions, but how do I find out the rating of my training facilities?

And how do I know the numbers of the workload for each training category? I can only see a slide bar.

The way I understand your post - it should not matter if I put higher emphasis on attacking than defending, as long as they are not under 6, right? And the current ability will rise depending on overall workload.

If true, it means that tweaking training with small differences between shooting, attacking, ball control should not matter at all.

This would mean that the whole training feature of FM08 is far less sophisticated than what I thought.

retired_britttakneee

My conclusion. If this is true, the perfect training schedule should be:

-Set all individual training categories to 6. -Increase the total workload slider as high as you can, but keeping it low enough to avoid injuries, and to allow recovery between games.
-Never bother about hiring new coaches (unless it has effects on player morale)

retired_datcrazyyshortyy

1.
16-20 - Top
13-15 - Good
10-12 - Average
6-9 - Adequate
3-5 - Fairly basic
1-2 - Basic

2.
Move slider at the left and consider

retired_gregski

Nice post.

Just a question. Almost all people say that we need 1 coach for each area of trainning. When I see the AI Teams they don't have 1 coach for each area and the best we can achieve is a 5 star workload training. So my question is how can AI Teams have players with CA almost equal to PA? My team struggles to reach their potential but AI Teams don't. If you have any idea about this please reply.

retired_hilltopdaisy

Coz AI cheats...allways was and allways will.

ddong78

I have done some tests myself using FMM (not too many), and I only agree partly with you.

I agree:

- Training effect is not as clear as it should be.
- Training seems to have less of an effect than what I would hope.
- Skill improvement often makes no sense.

I disagree:

- Training DOES make a difference. I managed to get a young striker's Pace from 8 to 12 within 3 years (by investing in aerobic training), while the rest of the skills had not gone up so much. Having said that, I fail more often than I succeed, with other players. SO you have a point, but training is not completely useless.

- Often, regarding mid-age players who are close to their PA, I see just one attribute increasing, and it's usually (but not always), the one I had been investing into.

- I am pretty sure I have noticed quite an effect of Professionalism on younger players development.

- You seem to be confusing natural development with training a little bit. When (almost) all technical and mental attributes are increasing evenly, that's probably not down to training (as long as it's not too light). It's down to natural development and you haven't seen the effects of training yet.

- Unless I misread, your sample was too small to draw good conclusions. I was using about 20 players (both young and mature) when I did mine. The effects of training within a season were only visible on very few of them.

But, overall, I agree that the ffect of training should be stronger. Not necessarily faster. Stronger.

ddong78

Also, the best way to see the effect of training is to invest in a particular regime. E.g., Put all regimes on heaviest "light" or lightest "medium" and just one regime on "High" intensity. Given enough time and a big sample, you should see some players losing some skills and gaining in the area that you invested.