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Old 01-15-2008, 05:23 PM   Chess AI and FM Post #1
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Default Chess AI and FM

I often think if a chess based AI were adapted to football manager, what the consequences would be.

Imagine Deep Blue being programed with all the various options and moves that are allowed in FM and then taking over a club.

Would it become the best manager ever in history?
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:26 PM   Chess AI and FM Post #2
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Probably.
As long as IBM don't cheat again!
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:29 PM   Chess AI and FM Post #3
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Deep Blue would say: "**** this game is so buggy..."
or "this AI cheats"
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:44 PM   Chess AI and FM Post #4
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Unfortunately, Deep Blue gets to utilize the Min-Max algorithm, which is a well-known algorithm for well-understood games:

For each legal move, assume your opponent makes the best possible response, and you make the best possible move after that, etc... look, say, seven moves ahead, or in the case of a supercomputer, eleven, even fifteen moves ahead. (Ideally, by "pruning" paths which you can see have already suffered horrible losses.)

That algorithm is simply not applicable to FM at all: the number of simultaneous opponents would raise the "possible response" moves to such an overwhelming size that even a supercomputer would be paralyzed trying to look seven moves ahead .. while the introduction of random numbers would render the entire concept moot.

I do think that there are "look ahead" mechanisms which FM needs, but Min-Max isn't the answer.

What I would like to see is the AI "looking ahead" only in regards to its own squad. Each team should have "in mind" who it thinks its starters and second-choice are at each position "after this transfer window", "two-and-a-half years along the line", and "five years along the line".

The first would result in the AI, for example, not selling its only goalkeeper. In fact, ideally it shouldn't sell either of its two best goalkeepers, unless there is a third goalkeeper on the squad whom it would classify as a "competent backup".

The second aspect would drive contract renewals. If a player would be projected as a starter, who is significantly better than the second-choice, and contributing at or above the club's current level 2.5 years down the line .. but his contract is running out .. the AI would be a lot more aggressive about re-signing the player.

Finally, the third time-frame would drive youth development: the AI would be a lot less willing to sell young players which it projected as having the ability to step into the starting lineup three to five years down the line.

You can do all of that without Min-Max.
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Old 01-15-2008, 06:04 PM   Chess AI and FM Post #5
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Chess AI aint all that. If they can develop a Go AI which can beat top professional Go players then I would be impress
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:33 PM   Chess AI and FM Post #6
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Deep Blue is a supercomputer, even if the chess AI they possess is far greater than the FM AI, it's still completely unrealistic to implement into FM since they would need like 7000 similar instances of the same AI been processed at the same time.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:39 PM   Chess AI and FM Post #7
 
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Chess AI is not all that good.
The way it works is evaluating the most probable move made be a person and heuristically evaluates based on the permutations.
Chess players quickly found out that be making a move that was completely unexpected - i.e. doesn't give the player an advantage causes the AI to 'go back to the drawing board'.

The result of this was the computer running over the 3hr time limit and losing the game to the human.

92% final year AI loyal.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:38 PM   Chess AI and FM Post #8
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As far as Deep Blue is concerned, it had a huge database of played chess matches, which it used to decide its next move. Basically, all it did was search the database to see if it can find a same or similar placement of figures in a match, and then use that to decide what to do next.

There was very little AI involved, and I guess it did use the MIN-MAX algorythm (but I don't really know). Antagonistic games (where you have one oponent and you both play by a strict, well-defined set of rules) are actually quite easy to make. It's the database search part that was tough

Also, it's true that Kasparov won the first match by changing constantly changing tactics, but Deep Blue was then upgraded, and won the second match.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:03 AM   Chess AI and FM Post #9
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One can compare Football Manager to Go rather than Chess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_complexity shows us that it is probably not going to be possible to have such good AI for Football Manager for a very long time.
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