Tom Leeburn

Or a mail has gone round about a feature posted on the forums that we're discussing via e-mail. Which happens a lot. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't it refreshing to have a few threads worth reading in GQ the moment :thup:.

Player ratings.

Match engine.

(See what you can do Mitja when you stop moaning).

Critique of transfer mechanism.

Player development.

When was the last time that there were 4 decent threads on the first page of GQ at the same time.

Maybe if there were more of them and less in the style of the opening post of this thread, then the FM World would be a happier little place. </BLOCKQUOTE>

yes but how many of them have had any official response from si? (by that a mean a post by someone whose expertise relates to the area being discussed, rather than for example Ter who posts more than most at si, but freely admits that he doesnt know anymore about these issues for example than the rest of us.
To me the lack of response leaves you feeling that you are whistling in the wind, and is very frustrating.

Kriss

Tom I understand that would frustrate some people but it's nothing new and therefore your implication that something has caused it is plain wrong.

SI have never indulged in lengthy debate about such issues on here, they do take note of them though.

Ov Collyer

I think the lack of responses from SI folk in the forums comes down to a couple of things:

1) lack of time. The team are inevitably very busy. Often in the past, forum contributions from SI dev people has been done in spare time. As the game has grown in popularity and more people have visited the forums it's been increasingly unrealistic, without change, to keep onto of it all.

2) probably a fear of dipping their toes into the river and being bitten by piranhas. i.e. sadly there have been an element of people on here who feel they can be really quite rude and abusive to us and that can put off the less thick-skinned people from posting (especially in their spare time!)

However, we are making plans to improve the situation so that the people who are good enough to post constructive feedback in the forums are given more feedback from people with the answers and in due course we hope to have something in place.

Jimbokav1971

Tom. You've only recently signed up to the forums so let me explain.

This forum, (Football Manager General Discussion), is a place where we, (the users of the game), discuss the game in general terms. What it's not is a place to demand or even expect, questions to be asked of SI.

In the poast there has been significant response from SI, (and there still is in any topic that piques the interest), but be under no illusions.... THIS FORUM IS NOT HERE FOR US TO QUESTION SI. IT IS HERE FOR US TO DISCUSS AMONGST OURSELVES.

Obviously we do ask SI questions from time to time and in the main, if the question is well presented and of a topic that has not been "done to death", then you will usually get a response somewhere even if it is only an acknowledgment that the situation is currently being looked into. Also the recent negativityb on the forums is just one reason why a number of SI staff post less frequently at the moment than they have done in the past.

The sooner we stop expecting SI to respond to every thread then the smoother this place will run.

SI read a LOT of these threads and the good threads generally keep getting bumped just so they don't get missed.

The threads that we've list above are decent discussions in their own right without the need for comment from SI.

The reason for this may be that, (using the player ratings for example), they have already commented i the bugs forum that this is being looked into and there may, (or may not), be a change to this in the next patch.

This forum is General Discussion, not General Questions for SI.

Bigboytris

Say it brother!! (from a different mother!)

George Graham

Or a mail has gone round about a feature posted on the forums that we're discussing via e-mail. Which happens a lot. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't it refreshing to have a few threads worth reading in GQ the moment :thup:.

Player ratings.

Match engine.

(See what you can do Mitja when you stop moaning).

Critique of transfer mechanism.

Player development.

When was the last time that there were 4 decent threads on the first page of GQ at the same time.

Maybe if there were more of them and less in the style of the opening post of this thread, then the FM World would be a happier little place. </BLOCKQUOTE>

yes but how many of them have had any official response from si? (by that a mean a post by someone whose expertise relates to the area being discussed, rather than for example Ter who posts more than most at si, but freely admits that he doesnt know anymore about these issues for example than the rest of us.
To me the lack of response leaves you feeling that you are whistling in the wind, and is very frustrating. </BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree- although I appreciate that SI should be spending their time on the game, as somebody who has been on these forums since CM2 its obvious that SIs presence on these forums has declined over the last couple of releases.

Now for me there is a lot of brand loyalty that SI have earnt over those 10 years- much of it has been because in the past their customer support has been flawless, and they really fostered and were actively a part of a genuine community.

Now as somebody who started in IT 17 years ago I know how we all change as regards our work- Im the same person out of work as I always was but as Im now management I am much more professional, and I appreciate that as CM/FM has grown and moved to Sega that they also will have had to evolve. But regardless of this communication needs to be maintained (especially after a release like FM08 that hasnt exactly been universally praised on these forums)- maybe not from SI directly but from some official source.

Which is all fine and dandy when it going ok- but just look at these forums, there isnt a lot of positivity towards the latest release is there?

I saw Ovs comment which quite rightly says that statistically (I assume this means sales) and critically FM08 is their best release, but imo this is misleading.

SI have a captive audience as currently they have no genuine competition and even though CM has shown signs of improvement ( and in this players opinion fresher ideas than SI is coming up with to) its damaged by past outings as many will disregard it automatically.

Secondly the reviews have never been critical of FM- its assumed that its the best and even CM4 got universally good reviews in the popular PC mags. They also failed to pick up on the closing down bug- which is strange as you can guarantee that they would mention bugs in other releases but somehow FM is untouchable when it comes to genuine objective criticism in the PC press.

Im sure SI work damn hard on each release, but from this gamers perspective a lot of the hard work and brand loyalty that has been built over the years is in danger of evaporating. The atmosphere in the forums are testament to this- as we see people signing up for the first time just to complain about FM08, proving that its not just the hardcore fans who notice these things.

Lastly this series is in a rut- fresh and innovative ideas are practically non-existent, this year the new additions were paper thin and by and large cosmetic (match flow), or in areas where people just didnt care (International Management). Yet longstanding issues or poorly realised areas remain untouched such as the transfer market, the media, player interaction etc.

Thats why I think people have focused so much on the match engine- as it appears that from the potential of 8.0 that this was going to be FM08s saving grace, especially as apart from the obvious issues it looked like a radical change and was really looking good.

At some point your rivals may get it right, and then SI may genuinely see how damaging a release like FM08 has really been.

Bigboytris

Seriously though it's about time that someone like Jimbokav1971 said this as I regularly visit these forums and most of the posts on here are from people demanding answers from SI otherwise about bugs problems they have and if SI don't answer they'll commit suicide (worse case I know).

Patrick.Bateman

If you think FM is counting too much bugs, you should try Fifa Manager.

That game is crashing and show-stopping all the time.

My FM2008 didn’t see one single showstopper at all and I play it rather a lot.

Sure, it’s having bugs. But relax, it’s software! Due its complex nature, software of any decent size will always contain bugs. Doesn’t matter how much effort you put in testing.

I’m pretty sure the SI people do not play FM all the time in their spare time. They go out, drink beers and get drunk, meet people, go to the football, read magazines and books, go to the movies, have sex, etc…

And this is good, because lock people always to the same situation and they will ****** soon.

Bigboytris

Just re-read wot I wrote meant to say '...people demanding answer from Si about bugs they have and if SI don't answer.....' OOOPS! :eek:

Powermonger

Ov, with the advent of the ME shared so closely with FM and FML, does this mean it will be even more diffcult to make changes to the tactical side of the game?

May of us would like to see the tactical side of the game refined more and made more accessable but with the ME being shared so closely between the two titles I worry that we will never see any changes with tactics in the future. We haven't seen any changes to tactics since the slider system was introduced in CM4 which is worrying in itself and we'd like to see some changes.