lyw_85

Hello and thanks for coming in to see my thread.
Before I start, I would like to say that I have already looked in the tactical bible thread and have already done many search and read ups.

I have noticed that many of the tactics and theories that Cleon, rashidi etc have thrown up base yr tactics on a big targetman who have good heading and jumping. I have seldom liked football played in the air and I would like to see a tactic in FM that generally has football played on the ground. I have built my team with players that have high pace, acceleration and off the ball stats. Most of them cannot head the ball.

I would like to play fast flowing football, mainly on the ground. Factors affecting this are mainly,
1. Passing
2. Tempo
3. Closing Down
4. Time Wasting
5. Defensive Line
6. Players Individual Instructions

1. Passing and Tempo
First of all, I need to know the difference between short and direct passing. Cleon gave me a defination on short and direct passing few months ago.
From him, short passing is passing to the nearest player while direct passing is passing the ball up the field as quick as you can.
I dun really see much difference between the 2 explanations here.
Direct passing is passing the ball up the field as quick as you can. How about combine Direct passing with a [B]slow[B] tempo? It seems to be very contradictory.
I have also noticed that short passing can also result in a number of long balls. When I implement short passing on my team, they tend to pass it around, before crossing a long ball in, Or passing back to the defenders and they will hit a long ball forward. Correct me if my observations are wrong.

I tried playing short passing with Quick Tempo but the results are still the same. Therefore, I changed to Direct passing and noticed that the number of long balls have been reduced. However, there are fewer passes between my midfield, and possession is lesser. There is still at least 10 headers for my striker to win. For 2 strikers, they have at least 15-25 headers to win. That is alot if you have strikers like rafael sobis and jermaine defoe.

Currently, I am still undergoing tests for the rest of the options so I am unable to write more about it. But I will appreciate if anybody can give me light on my problems. It is basically difficulty implementing a tactic for a side with no tall players. I will continue after I done more tests.

Thank you.

cobalt272

Short passing is pretty self explanatory. Instead of hoofing it 50 yards, you side foot it 10 yards. The idea of this is to keep possession, so playing a high tempo short passing game is just not right. The players arent gonna have any time to make space for each other and that is why you are experiencing more long balls. They run out of options and are forced to just hoof it.

Direct passing is taking the quickest route to goal, which often involves lots of long balls to try and get the ball to the striker in minimal time.

"How about combining direct passing with a slow tempo? It seems to be very contradictory"

You answered your own question. Its contradictory....so don't do it.

The reason there are fewer passes in your midfield and you have less possession is because both of these are common characteristics of the direct passing game. By using direct passing, you bypass the midfield with the long ball over the top. Also, the point of direct passing is not to keep possession, but to hit on the break.

So if you want less long balls, use short passing, slow tempo and narrow formation.

moggydave

I also suffer much fustation at the hands of football manager and most definitely don't have much undstanding onmany elements of the game, but I feel I can help with the passing/tempo situation, as the only team I've had success with (Bayern) I played with the kind of game you seem to want to play.

Put simply, slow tempo goes with short passing. Direct passing goes with quick tempo. I don't think there is any other way to go about it. You want to play the slow/short game as I understand it. Thus you need players with good passing stats first and formost. Physical stats are less of an issue than mental stats I would think with this strategy, though obviously wide players need to be pacey and defenders need to be strong.

With regards to closing down, you want little generally with a slow passing game as far I understand it, but more against teams that you would consider better than you (what teams do you play incidently). I'm very unsure of this however so someone else can probably correct me if I'm wrong.

What I do know is that if you're a half decent team time wasting should always be on very low unless you have a one goal lead with 5 minutes to go. Perhaps it's good to put it up if your undergoing a period of sustained pressure too, not sure about this though.

Regarding player instructions and defensive lines, these are two areas of tactics where I myself am very poor (I think). I'll be checking back on this topic to see what people say.

Millie

Direct passing is about getting forward quickly. This means getting it to forwards as early as is possible, providing they aren't marked or in stupid positions. Short passing looks for the nearest available option.

That's why short/quick and direct/slow systems shouldn't be implimented. The contradiction between the two will leave players confused. As a rule, I tend to never have more than a two or three notch gap between the two, and tend to have them both on the same setting (i.e., 12 passing, 12 tempo or something like that).

Teams on short passing will still look for the long ball if it's on (particularly with through balls or crosses implimented or creative freedom), and direct passing will look for the short option (to keep the attack going). The instruction isn't exclusive, it just gives the team an idea of what you want ideally. Obviously, the severity of the slider affects how strictly they impliment this instruction.

That's why you should play shorter and slower passing. If too short, though, the team can panic and just lump the ball out of defence to protect the goal. Need to have the right balance here.

You may find you need to play slightly narrower and/or with a higher defensive line to keep the team compact. Depends on what you find, really.

Of course, you could just buy a tall target man. Johnson and Iversen come to mind.

lyw_85

Thank you everybody for your input.
However, I want to play a high tempo game with quick passes and high movement. Much like Arsenal play in real life.

Playing at a slow tempo, won't this negate my players pace in the game? They are the fastest in the game but if i play a slow tempo, I wouldn't be utilising their assets.

From what I gather, Passing and Tempo goes hand in hand. From what Millie said, his rule of thumb is to make sure it is only 2 clicks from each other. So if I wanna play a high tempo, I can only mix it with direct or mixed passing.

How about player's individual instructions then? The tactics bible said that strikers should be on short passing since they are already high up the field. Won't they get confused if I play a high tempo and they are set to short passing?

Thanks everybody.

Cleon

Direct passing is passing the ball like this; Defence, Midfield then attack, or if its a midfielder on the ball he will look for an attacker first.

Luke20046

When I first started with arsenal, I was able to get rid of most of the air game by using a short, slow passing game, and putting all my players on crossing rarly, and giving your good passers through balls often. Also, Iv never tried it, but it would make sense to put both of your strikers as targetmen, and then make the targetman supply to run on to ball? Now I play my game centered around a tall targetman with a 20 in jumping, and it opens up alot of scoring chances for my quick striker from flick-ons.

Millie

Arsenal move the ball quickly, but they don't really have a quick tempo. There is a distinction.

Arsenal play one or two touch passing most of the time, but unless they're on the counter attack they play a lot of sideways and backwards balls. I've seen them a lot on TV this season (my girlfriend's a fan for some God-knows-what reason) and when just playing normal possession football they're quite methodical about their build up.

Hence the constant cries of SHOOT! from the pub floor.

In FM this can be sort of replicated by having very short passing (two or three notches) and still you will probably only need five or six notches of tempo.

Mentality (team) and your width/def line settings will help set the team up as you want it from there. Playing an attacking style may help them play quicker, but a higher tempo will probably result in "headless chicken" syndrome.

High tempo seems to mean "lump the ball forward as quickly as possible" in FM07. However, playing quickly, as in short, crisp passing moves, does not necessarily require a quick tempo.

All I can really say (and I do this a lot, which isn't very helpful, I know) is try different settings based on very short passing. It should be quite quick and pacy.

Of course, beware the wet pitch.

Asmodeus

I've switched to a high tempo short passing game with Arsenal in 2015. It's far more effective as otherwise my team simply gets overrun by high tempo Premiership sides.

Looks more like Arsenal too I feel.

lyw_85

After watching a few full matches, I noticed that Direct passing doesn't really mean long ball passing or that the passes are generally over the top. Its down to a player's teamwork and whether he has a player near him.

Asmodeus, I'm curious what are the notches on yr passing, tempo, width and defensive line bar?