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Originally posted by Genuine_quality:
well of course a part of it was tactics, like if scotland had played 9 up front they would have lost heavily etc, but on champ man its 75% tactics and 25% player ability
So you have said,
" Tactics can separate teams that are close in natural ability, but thats all".
So I have put my point across that tactics have a lot more to do with teams winning and losing as Scotland are no where near France in terms of natural ability but yet managed to beat them twice and therefore kinda picking all sorts of holes in the statement you made.
Of course its mostly about tactics as that is what football is mainly about, although you seem to be of the belief that you can simply put eleven players on a pitch who seem better on paper and ability and expect them to win every single game but thats is not how football works irl and in FM.
After Torres missed yet another sitter I looked at the match report. It wasn't a sitter it was a diving header, a much more difficult chance to convert. The 2D didn't represent this chance adequately; and I missed the commentary line 'cos it flashed past too quickly.
Originally posted by GillsMan:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by xouman:
IMHO there are two problems in ME related and people complaint about one of them.
It's clear that some tactics create tons of chances, more chances than any matches. Yes, big teams sometimes have 20 shots in a match, but that is not real average. In FM is easy to have lots of chances, and some that look easy in 2D. That is a problem.
And then, those tactics make teams miss lots of chances. I have seen it by myself, it's nearly ridiculous to have 20 shots in goal and only 1 against and lose the game. Second problem.
But there are other tactics that work in a comprehensive way, with fine goal rating and a reasonable number of chances. I have found a couple of tactics that match this and I'm having success despite having less chances than before.
So, people who say FM is unplayable: choose a right tactic, and you will enjoy the game.
And people who say that FM has no problem: explain me why can't I play with fast tempo and direct passing and expect normal behaviour from the ME.
A very sensible post. I quite agree to a degree. The ME isn't perfect, but neither is it unplayable. </BLOCKQUOTE>
Unplayable depends on your point of view, I myself find the game unplayable due to certain things within the match engine - you may not take any notice of these things and carry on regardless.
I personally find the match engine on the patch unplayable. The chances created bug is dreadful and I have given up playing it. First I tried playing it on just text commentary which made things better but I wanted the 2D pitch so I just went back to the beta patch and by doing this the match engine is near perfect.
Originally posted by Kriss:
Because of it's complexity SI will take all the time they can get to get it right.
As a patch is due after the transfer window it makes complete sense to keep working on and testing the ME till then rather than repeating the quick patch solution which failed in the first place.
Your rehash of the theory that the Sega connection is somehow damaging is speculative balderdash and based on no factual knowledge at all. In fact it's a huge step in ensuring the future of FM.
I am rehashing nothing at all, and while I respect your right to an opinion (just like I and everyone else) to refer to my comment as "speculative balderdash and based on no factual knowledge at all" is stupid at best and crass at worst.
I am not indulging in any sort of speculation, simply making a comment based on my own observations since the first day the Collyer Bros released a football sim, which I have been playing ever since. I didn't base my comments on any factual knowledge as there is none, I simply made an observation.
Your comment that it is a “huge step in ensuring the future of FM” is based on your own opinion, and only after the next 15 to 20 years of the games existence will you be able to claim any "factual knowledge".
Grow up, if you can't respect another person's right to express an opinion, then I suggest you refrain from making derogatory comments.
Originally posted by Barside:
Is the OP posting anything we havn't heard before?
SI have kindly provided a search function & as has been said a large match engine thread already exists on the first page. Also I do believe SI have admitted their mistake on the shots issue & will be fixing it, so can people not just wait until 8.02 is released on this one?
I should point out that while you don't like the fact that the OP created this thread, by responding to it you have simply bumped it to the top of the pile...
Originally posted by Ranson52:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Kriss:
Because of it's complexity SI will take all the time they can get to get it right.
As a patch is due after the transfer window it makes complete sense to keep working on and testing the ME till then rather than repeating the quick patch solution which failed in the first place.
Your rehash of the theory that the Sega connection is somehow damaging is speculative balderdash and based on no factual knowledge at all. In fact it's a huge step in ensuring the future of FM.
I am rehashing nothing at all, and while I respect your right to an opinion (just like I and everyone else) to refer to my comment as "speculative balderdash and based on no factual knowledge at all" is stupid at best and crass at worst.
I am not indulging in any sort of speculation, simply making a comment based on my own observations since the first day the Collyer Bros released a football sim, which I have been playing ever since. I didn't base my comments on any factual knowledge as there is none, I simply made an observation.
Your comment that it is a “huge step in ensuring the future of FM” is based on your own opinion, and only after the next 15 to 20 years of the games existence will you be able to claim any "factual knowledge".
Grow up, if you can't respect another person's right to express an opinion, then I suggest you refrain from making derogatory comments. </BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't see anything derogatory there, your opinion v my opinion.
Get off your high horse.
I'd just point out that mine is an informed opinion and yours is just speculation.
It's unplayable as far as I'm concerned. Realism is everything. The average Premiership game has about 20-25 shots on goal, but in my FM08 games it is more like 40. But the ME makes you miss loads of easy chances to ensure the total goals aren't too high.
Once you get it in your head that it's not a realistic match engine, it takes away the fun for me. The whole point of FM is we want to think we are playing a real game of football with real tactics etc...not just using trial and error to find some tactic that will beat a phoney match engine.
Let's hope the patch fixes this issue, but I'm very disappointed they released the game with such glaring problems in the first place.
Originally posted by Roger Hunt:
I think that the difficulty is that 'shots on target' is the 'last' ratio before goals. What I mean is that - if you have good possession and passing, but poor territorial advantage - then you assume you are being too cautious and adjust your play. If you have lots of shots off target, you assume that your strikers are poor or that they aren't getting quality service.
But if you are getting 10-15 shots on target, 'logic' (experience of watching football irl) tells you that you should (most of the time) beat the keeper with 2-3 of them; and furthermore, it's very hard to see what else you as the manager can do to increase the quality of the chances. I fully accept that there may be things that can be done but they are not obvious, and I think this has frustrated people.
If SI believe that the match engine is 'right' then imho there need to be other managerial tools within the game (along the lines of an OPTA analysis) that help you understand why your shots aren't turning into goals.
I agree with this completely. Although I've managed to create a tactic that doesn't suffer from this problem, and have realised that results are more important than number of shots (meaning I'm now enjoying the game as much as ever), I can completely understand why it is so misleading to people. As has been said it's very difficult to know what to do to improve a tactic when all the signs point to it being a good one already. If you're creating vast numbers of chances that look good but still losing, then how will you have any idea what you're supposed to do to stop losing?
So while the game is playable and enjoyable for many of us this issue makes the tactical side of the game very difficult and frustrating for many, which is why more tools are needed to help the user have the same level of understanding of the tactics that the AI managers seem to have.
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