If you register for free, you will be able to post threads, vote on polls and lots more. If you have problems with the registration or logging in, please contact the administrator.
my discussion "tactical re-writin" was un-fairly closed in my opinoum.
I don't have any tactical tips or good tactic to offer. also I'm not searching for any help on that metter.
my point of that thread was to compare tactical systems on FM to real life. it's got more to do with match engine comparation to real football. aslo the idea was to give new ideas how this game could go further. I don't see this subject to suite T&T Tips forum and would probably be closed there.
I politly ask for permission to talk on this subject.
that's what I'm writing about. I don't see nothing in common to T&TT forum threads.
my 1st topic will be mentality, the basis of any tactic.
my starting point is comparing reality to FM world
MENTALITY
-WHAT IS MENTALITY?
it's team's way of playing-> attacking and defending. so more attacking this style is more players will perticipate (have attacking duties) when the team is in ball possesion. via versa more defensive mentality is more players will defend (have defensive duties) while possesion is lost.
mentality is also balance between defending and attacking. with how many players they attack/defend.
all that (mentality) should be understanded as a tendency . players try to perform their duties. it's not allways possibile as human factor is present. that's why there are players better in defending and those who prefer attacking duties.
-what it does?
most obvious segment of mentality is transforming of defending and attacking shape. more attacking tactics is more players will leave their defoult position in formation. they will also do it more often. via versa defensive tactics try their formations not to get too streched by attacking moves as they leave space for opposition to use. that is a forward runs segment of tactics.
mentality in my opinoum shouln't have influence on how quick the ball gets forward as it does now in FM. passing style and tempo should influence that.
-what are attacking/defensive duties?
the most attacking tactic is one in which all 10 (11) players attack equaly and they think only about attacking/moving forward. of course such a tactic (gung ho) isn't possibile to play all the time. that's why there are duties. basic distinction would be that defenders defend and attackers attack. but in football all players do both and not nacessery at same intensity.
it means that duty is an instruction. more defensive it is less player has to bother with attacking moves (dribling, creating chances, going forward, shooting...). but again it is a tendency. even centre back have their attacking duties.
tactical duties/instructions are (few of many): stay back/hold your position (more often), go forward (more often), try through balls, drible, hug line, double mark opponent, come deep, back off (easy tackle) opponent, playmaker, target man duties...
so my suggestion is that what are now prefered moves should be player duties/instructions.
another thing that needs changing is forward runs. they are allready given by mentality; team or player. so we wouldn't have forward runs slider anymore, only mentality. if we wanted our DC to stay back we would just tick "stay back" instruction and give him more more defensive mentality.
that is about it on mentality, I don't have more complains on this metter.
Ignored post by Mitja posted 18 January 2008 14:54 Show Post
Mitja
Amateur
Location: moan or not to moan?
Registered: 20 June 2004
Posted 18 January 2008 16:18 Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
MENTALITY II; FOOTBALL STYLE
mentality slider of 22 clicks is too big in my opinoum. either you play all out attack, attacking, defensive, all back or balanced metality. 10 click slider would be more then enough.
attacking style doesn't need to be also attractive. mentality needs to work together with other tactial parts. most imortant aretempo/time wasting and formation. of course all other tactical stuff is also important like passing style, D-line, width, closing down...
these are football styles:
-"catanaccio", ultra defensive, all men behind ball;
basic caracheristics are formation with lonely striker, very deep D-line, narrow and compact formation, closing down near own goal. probably big target man up front, very direct passing by-pasing the midfield. team wants not to loose, score maybe on some counter. attacking runs are made by very few players. holding the ball much. this style are playing teams with much poorer quality of opponents or when trying to hold the pressure. italy was master of this footbal.
-counter attacking
team relies on counter attacks as the main weapon doesn't want to gamble by out-playing opponent team. quicker tempo probably more direct passing. possesion is not important that much. deep, narrow. very effeciant tactic especially awey.
-balanced style or possesional football
samba football. short passing, many one-twos, slower tempo, beatifull to watch when given your players enough freedom. the point of this style is to out-chance opponents by more possesion and surrounding their area. need to have good technical and passing players. downside of this tactic is it's quite easy to defend due to it's slower tempo. that's why teams combine it with counter attacks when possibile, thesedays.
-attacking style
very fast, modern style. players try to get forward as soon as possibile the ball also. more direct passing, forcing counter attacks when possibile. possesion not so important. premiership style. arenal, man united and roma play it especially eficient.
-all out attack, "gung ho"
nothing to loose style, very fast, all players going forward, even keepers.
this is really basics of football.
it would be nice to have theese styles in the game as pre-set. sliders move to right place automatcly. things would simplify both for humans and AI.
so my suggestion is that what are now prefered moves should be player duties/instructions.
I disagree as these are two completely different things. Preferred moves are an expression of a players individual style (technical things they do that defines them as a player) whereas mentality (as you rightly state) is about a way of playing (defensive/attacking).
I applaud what you are attempting to do as I think this is an area of the game that can be complicated for users who are not as experienced at the game. Unfortunately, I don't feel the ideas you have presented here are thought out well enough at the moment.
I personally like the system we have currently but do feel it could be improved upon for other less-experienced users. I don't think that dumbing down certain areas is the correct avenue to go down though.
I personally feel (and I'm going to hate myself for saying this) that there should be two tactical systems in the game - Simple and Advanced.
The Advanced system would be pretty much what we have now with any future improvements to be added. The Simple system would be just that. For your example, Mentality would consist of Ultra-defensive, Defensive, Normal, Attacking, All-out Attack. That would be only 5 notches on the slider. Each one clearly marked as to what it does for the simplicity of the user.
The simple mode would also have a reduced instruction set with each included item simplified. For example there should be a "Style of play" slider containing basic, erm, playing styles such as - Counter-attack, Patient build-up etc. These would combine several sliders which would be automatically set to a good level for each chosen style of play (long, quick passing for counter-attack as an example).
Set piece takers would be automatically chosen to unclutter the tactical area and not make it so daunting at first glance.
The two systems should be made easy to switch between using an option in preferences so that a user can switch between them at any time.
By implementing this kind of system, new users could be eased into the game and progress onto the more complex side of tactics once they have found their feet.
I feel this would benefit all parties as younger players wouldn't feel so confused by all of the options, the experienced players can do what they've always done and SI would have less complaints about the tactical side of the game being too confusing.
to tell you the truth I would like tactics to be even more in-depth. this right now it's even less then basis. with actually giving your players duties the game would just copy IRE. I don't know why it is strange to you that we could be able to tell our players to double mark someone, or to cut inside or tu hug line. yes preffered moves do define their playing bit how can you be sure it's not just instructions. I beieve someone who is good at dribling it's his way of playing but also coach might use it as instruction (we have run with ball instruction allready right?, why we wouldn't have it for cut inside). but to tell you the truth more then half of preffered moves don't work at the moment.
to Andy H 
Linear Mode
