retired_lapepe

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seamus:
Michael Moore has begged Ralph Nader not to run for president in numerous media outlets. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure what he's said this time, but it seems like a reasonable thing to say when faced with four more years of Bush. He did support Nader in 2000, untill he saw that it would be a very close call. He then changed to Gore, along with many others, and Nader dropped several points in the polls. And as it turned out Gore won the election, but Bush stole the presidency.

27 supporters of Nader have signed a petition where they basically say vote for Kerry. In the next four years several people are likely to retire in the Supreme Court, and Bush will choose someone on the far right wing, that passes his litmus tests. That will probably mean that the right to abortion in the first trimester will dissappear, and corporations will be even more protected in the courts than they are today. Not a brigth future.

Bush is now also seeking to proceed with "Son of Star Wars". That will be the finitive death of the ABM treaty. As we see with Iran and North Korea, building nuclear weapons is the biggest deterrent of a US invasion. "Star Wars" will make this even more true.

retired_babygirlgiggles

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jcb23:
Democrat = Kerry (Politically to the "left")

Republican = Bush (Politically to the "right") <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From an euro-poof spectrum:

Democrat = Kerry (Politically somewhere right of the middle)

Republican = Bush (Politically way way away from the midfield and approaching extreme right wing)

Uknowmehfo

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Giziar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jcb23:
Democrat = Kerry (Politically to the "left")

Republican = Bush (Politically to the "right") <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From an euro-poof spectrum:

Democrat = Kerry (Politically somewhere right of the middle)

Republican = Bush (Politically way way away from the midfield and approaching extreme right wing) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Sooo true!!

retired_mrsjb

Wow. Lots of stuff there since I last caught up with this thread. My thoughts on some of it:

Kerry is (just about) left of centre. No, he's not a rampant socialist, but calling him right-wing is I think inaccurate. Although I suppose it depends what you call centrist, Remco

Pangaea: I think Kerry's foreign policy would be rather different to Bush's. Don't know that it would be enough, but you got to take what you can get. There would at least be a little dialogue before the US army invades somewhere unilaterally

I think mkus is right though. Bush will probably get back in. He's not running on politics, he's running on religion, and he has enough support in the bible belt to see him home. Separation of Church and State? Not in the Bush White House.

Nader's credentials may or may not be better than the others but the simple fact is he will have an impact on the result that could mean the worst candidate from his point of view wins. Not sure what he gains from it.

Bin Laden rumours: I've long believed, cynic that I am, that should he be captured or killed it would be in the few days leading up to November 2nd. We'll see.

I'm trying not to think about the Supreme Court. That is just depressing

retired_lapepe

Bin Laden: I hope they won't get him before the election, as that'll mean Bush victory. I hope they get him, as he should've been the main target, but not in the coming few weeks.

I agree with you on Nader as well. He is causing more harm than good when running in swing-states, and ultimately it can mean Bush is elected (once again I refuse to say re-elected).

Calling Kerry right-wing is probably incorrect, but I would say he is to the right of center. One thing is for certain, the US needs more parties on the ballot.

Unfortunetely I think you may be right about Bush winning on the evangelists. He's got massive support, and they're not turning their backs to him any time soon. I would have thought that after beating Bush pretty solidly in at least two of the three debates, he would jump into the lead in the polls. That has not happened. Therefore I think Bush wins unless he serioulsy fooks up, or the media gets up from its knees, and zips up Bush.

The latter ain't happening.

retired_sara maria

There's a wonderful quote I heard recently that gives you an idea of voting ideals of middle-America.

"Sure Kerry won the debates, but I don't want someone to debate, I want a strong leader and that's Bush." -- or something along those lines.

Kerry comes from an intellectual, New England background, and comes off that way...where did Bush's votes come from in the last election? not the Northeast, save for N.H.

And one must remember, popular vote really doesn't mean anything in the end, because of the damn electoral college, so if Kerry doesn't take some of middle America it's a lost cause. I'm not sure how appealing he is to them. More of the same, I'm afraid.

And now there's talk of NJ swinging republican, historically never an issue...so, Julian...are you allowed to vote here?

retired_kswansonwoolf

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jcb23:


I think mkus is right though. Bush will probably get back in. He's not running on politics, he's running on religion, and he has enough support in the bible belt to see him home. Separation of Church and State? Not in the Bush White House.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wait, wait. What's the issue about Church and the State? I guess Bush is trying to appeal to the "religious Americans", by banning abortions etc?

Somehow i thought the Church wasn't playing an active role in US elections, sounds like i was wrong?

retired_mrsjb

I'd need to take citizenship to get a vote, and there's only 3 "privileges" I can make out that come with the step from green card to citizen: voting, jury duty and military service.

I'm not overly keen on two of the three, so I'm waiting until I'm too old to draft to decide whether to file

I also heard a variation on that quote which was even scarier to me: "Bush isn't doing a good job, but I don't think we should change president now" :eek:

retired_babygirlgiggles

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seamus:
And now there's talk of NJ swinging republican, historically never an issue...so, Julian...are you allowed to vote here? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It all depends on what poll you are reading. Saw also a recent poll that Kerry gives a 10 point lead in NJ. On the other hand some other poll only gave Kerry 50% in MA ...

There is only one poll that really matters, the final one in november.

Saw another poll today conducted from Dutch members of parliament. Some wouldn't say, some weren't asked, some wouldn't know (I'd like to know who that are so I can NOT vote for them the next time since I think it's only fair that a politician has some feeling about what's going on in the world..) but the poll result is 77-15-7 (K-B-N). There are 150 members in our parliament in total. I would say that it's still too close to call

retired_mrsjb

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kfoolmoon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jcb23:
I think mkus is right though. Bush will probably get back in. He's not running on politics, he's running on religion, and he has enough support in the bible belt to see him home. Separation of Church and State? Not in the Bush White House.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wait, wait. What's the issue about Church and the State? I guess Bush is trying to appeal to the "religious Americans", by banning abortions etc?

Somehow i thought the Church wasn't playing an active role in US elections, sounds like i was wrong? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The US constitution specifically calls for separation fo Church and state - in order that religion not be mandated or opposed by goverment. Bush's first act in office was to give money to faith-based charities.

Bush's primary fanbase is the religious right. This article has a lot to say about religion in the Bush White House. :eek: