Godfearer

I have answer this question like 30 times i will answer it once more for you people to learn how things work

We have 2 variables
- National league reputation (changes)in the editor it appears when you search in Nations

-Competition reputation (static) it appears in the editor when you look for competitions

Scottish (National) league reputation starts IIRC at 14 , having won 5 European titles it is now 19 , this allows you to sign good players from all over the world . Also other AI Scottish teams will sign better players .

Competition reputation does not change , this affects your club's reputation, how?
Having won CL 5 times your reputation risen by at least 2.500 points , if we think that hearts starts at 6.000 points your current level should be around 8.500 (Bayern Munchen starts with 8.500).
Now because you play in the Scottish competitions that have a value of 14 every end of the season you are losing a crapload of those points (200 or more) even if you won the double .
I don't know why this happens but the game always keep your club's reputation checked so no matter what you do you will always lose players to Barcelosers , Milan etc .

Experiment : get FMM trainer and put your club's reputation at 9.000 , then look if anyone wants to move to a bigger club , in my (short , i only play 07 now) games most of the times players are aware that they already play in a big club.

retired_kmwilliams05

Alas, because club rep is limited by the league standard you'd find that at the end of the first season you'd no longer have a 9000 rep team.

This is one of the big flaws with FM08, and has been present for years, but not so apparent till this version (read the thread in the bugs section about club reps in France and such). It means that as at the end of each season your rep drops dramatically you can suddenly find half your squad want to move to a 'bigger side' then half their wages and move to the English championship.

More disgustingly if you do really well in a Summer league, your rep resets at the end of the season, then you have European games two months later you're doomed. You may have won the first leg 3-0, but by the second players you brought in before your rep dropped a whack start to think they've made a mistake, your best players want to move on and other players start to panic the best ones want out.

I can pretty much promise it won't be fixed in the patch, yet alone FM09 as no matter how much people have complained about this for years it's never been fixed.

A good fix would be to exclude teams who qualify for Europe from the team rep being limited.

Godfearer

A nice fix could be to use dual reputation just like FIFA does , one for domestic leagues and one in Europe.
Domestic league is not that important , maybe take the league positions , economics, transfers and attendances in account and give a number that recalculates every 2 or 3 years.
In Europe it can be like 70% your club's coefficients and 30% your nation's coefficients. 70% because in countries like Scotland, Portugal, Austria a couple of clubs stand above the others anyway and it is not like Spain , there are usually chaotic differences between top and mid table teams in all aspects .
30% because domestic competition does matter .


About the fmm thing , it is a trainer , you can "exclude" all reputation changes caused by domestic competitions.

Dav1d

You have to think about the league standard. Are other teams in the league doing well in Europe or is it just you? If it's just one team doing well, then they may not want to come anyway because there would be only one good team in there, whereas in Spain for example, it's more competitive.

I'm not saying that league standard shouldn't change because I think 100% that it should but you have to think about all the teams in the league.

Godfearer

The thing is that some teams stand far above their league standard .Porto vs Amadora .. we are talking about chaotic differences , Mallorca will never become Porto in reality yet in the game Porto will be insignificant after 4-5 years while Mallorca can be the next Milan just because of League Standard.
I strongly believe that in the next 5 years Russian league will be number 1 in Europe , because of money and will for success , this can never be reflected inside the game, i think it should.

Emm

Themistofelis. I'm a little confused on this and would be grateful if you would clear it up for me.

I was under the impression that structure reputation, (and what I mean by structure is English league structure or Italian league structure etc etc), stayed stuck at a certain level and would not change no matter how succesful member teams from that structure were in Continental competition.

From reading your posts in this thread it appears that I was wrong, (I think), but I am still confused. Am I correct in assuming that structure reputation, (you called it "National league standard"), is now variable and as such 100 years into a game, the N.Irish leagues could be the dominant force in Europe if the N.Irish clubs were succesful enough?

I read the bit that mentioned about club reputation being limited by the league standard reputation, but if this is the case then waht is the point in having a "National league standard" reputation as you call it.

I appreciate that you said you have expleined this a number of times before, but despite me reading an awful lot of the threads in here, I must have missed all of them.

Sorry.

I'm not being argumentative or anything, (if that's how my post reads). It's just that I think this is a vital part of the game and until now didn't realise that it was in FM08, (albeit not quite right). I don't ever use the editor so I don't understand what areas can and cannot be changed so apologies if that's what's causing the confusion.

Thanks in advance.

Godfearer

Jimbo
Before starting note that i made almost all of my tests in 07 , as people stated in many threads 08 is the same (maybe a bit more restrictive in gaining reputation points)

When starting in N.Ireland with a National Reputation lets say at 8 no player from Portuguese 1st division will ever sign to your club, maybe a "not needed" from Amadora but even those guys are hard to get.
Winning 7 European cups ( of any kind )will rise your NR to 15 (same as Portuguese) so you will be able to sign players from Portuguese 1st division (together with Italians,Spaniards from low table clubs)
Also something i have notice is that AI teams of your league will target better players (so if you have any youngsters with PA <130 nobody will ever bid for them ) when NR rises.
Highest achievable value is 20 , by hitting 20 you will be able to sign players from even Italy in theory.

League Reputation on the other hand will hammer your club's fame so although you will be able to sign players from Siena ( if Italian league is inactive , because active league will boost their reputation even higher) you will always lose the best ones to Milan .

I am not a programmer , i have just used the trainer to find out how this thing works , i understand the mentality behind the dual variables .
Mainly i believe that because the transfer model is wrong and people to save time run only a couple of leagues that get stronger by the pass of time SI wanted to keep big European clubs big after 20 years of play , thats my understanding of why you get hammered and why competition reputation is static.
So Jimbo no matter what, N.Irish clubs will not be dominant in Europe , they will become a bit more strong after many years but always losing their best players to big European clubs .

If a Dev or anyone who made tests knows some more i would be glad to learn/exchange experience.

Emm

Thanks for that :thup:.

Your English is very good but I am having a problem understanding a few bits.

First of all, I understand that you did your tests with FM07 but that the same will probably apply for FM08.

You mention that winning 7 European titles would increase my reputation to "whatever", but you don't mention whether it is only the winning of these titles that impacts on the reputation change, or whether getting to a certain stage on a regular basis, (say Qtr-Final or Semi-Final), would also have an impact, (albeit smaller)?

Did you mean to say that the AI teams in my league will not target these players? If they won't target them, why won't they target them ?

I understand that although my club reputation will be rising, it will be held back by the low reputation of the league I am playing in, (I suppose a little like CSKA Moscow, but on a smaller scale).

Thanks :thup:.

Godfearer

No only winning European cups rises National League Reputation .Winning games in Europe only gives reputation points to your club .

I made a simple example with a player named Galitsios in the Greek league , when the NLR is in the set value of 13 there are 3 or more top table clubs that bid for him every single time , if i set the NLR to lets say 17 (from the editor) then the player is not good enough for the standards of the league and mid table clubs will only rarely bid for him (he plays in a mid table club anyway and has a PA of 135).

Market relies in the db you use, a big db and a NLR that rises will turn domestic players into unemployed ones.If you have a save where you have won European competitions go take a look the quality of the players AI teams signed through the years.
Those are my findings and i don't claim to be 100% correct , if anyone knows more feel free to share.

Jimbo you are welcome .

Emm

I think I get you now.

I think that it's brilliant that the "structure reputation" is variable, but I think it's a shame that you only benefir from an increased reputation if a club from your nation actually wins a continental competition.

You could have 3 teams in the Semi-Finals of the Champions League, but none of them win the final and receive no increase in reputation at all.

I would much prefer it to be on a sliding scale of increase.

As has been said before, (probably by you), the easiest way for this to happen would be for it to be linked to continental coefficients.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.