retired_ferina

What really is ****in me off with this game , is the fact the AI always comes back with an error by one of your players......yes it happens in real life but not to the same team in the last few minutes.

Defenders simply ignoring balls they 'think' are going out (even though its blatent its staying in) for a striker to run onto and score.

I personally think the way the game is programed is for your team to make mistakes no matter what and thus making beleive the AI can combat anything you can throw at it.

I noticed pele has been on these boards since 2002 so obviously has a understanding of the game , and is also getting peed off with fm2007. People keep writing these massive in depth guides yet people who have been playing this game since its amiga times are strugling. I really did think that like usual i would of mastered this game by now but this seems impossible unless you have hours on end to tinker with your individual settings etc.....

Anyways for the 1st time ever i have deleted this game from my cd and snaped the disk it just gets me too mad

retired_smileyb26

Not trying to be pedantic, but if your argument is 'you are not clear enough' but a thread containing a lot of information is a 'disincentive towards reading it' surely you are being somewhat paradoxical. You can't complain we are not precise enough without expecting the precise information you are requesting to be long and detailed. </BLOCKQUOTE>

wwfan:

I don't wish to sound rude, but there is a difference between being detailed and filling it with too much unwanted stuff. I know you have taken great pains in coming up with long explanations for your theorems. I could do with a summarised version, or at least summarise it myself.

retired_slayerbing

A monthly update of the tactical theorems thread would be awesome...

It would be a way of discarding old ideas and let people know what the current thoughts on things were by people such as WWfan and the others who have made discoveries.

However updates like that are hard to do since peoples idea of what is the best way to do something is usually rebutted by someone else.

retired_mgavlick

@ Dirbrevil: I know you aren't trying to be rude.

The problem always is that some readers will always decide that some of what I have written isn't relevant/doesn't work. I write what I think is important and arrange it in sections that TT&F regulars will be used to i.e. frameworks = mentality settings, theorems = all other tactical settings. The introduction and discussion element is there to take people through my thought process and can easily be skipped if you are only after a guide to settings. I deliberately included that section this time as I thought it would be of interest, whereas previously I had really only specified ideas on best settings.

As for regular updates, it is a great idea and something akin to that may well be happening. I don't have the time to manage TT&F in the way that I would wish, nor play FM any where near enough to test theories with great regularity. However, a few of its regular contributors have clubbed together to research/produce more up to date theories which only require editing and proof reading before release. This team is sponsored by a specific site (no advertising, no pack drill) and will allow for a constant level of refined theory. It's in its early stages, but so far so good.

retired_smileyb26

wwfan:

Is it possible to point me to that site?

(With all due respect to the hard work put in by you and the contributors, reading tactical theorems as bedtime reading material will make me a sad human being.)

By the way, I used the rough guide you gave to s7v7n in your previous post, tweaked it a little and am having moderate success in most of my away games. In fact, when I would have been rolled over and got spanked heavily by teams like ManYoo, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelski at Craven Cottage (I'm Fulham, by the way), I drew 1-1 with Liverpool and suffered narrow defeats to Chelski (1-2, last minute goal by Fat Frank), and lost 2-3 to ManYoo as well as Arsenal.

For moderate teams, I am grabbing narrow 1-0 away victories. It has been more than 5 - 6 games and I am happy to say that the wheels haven't quite come off yet for this mini good run of mine.

retired_smileyb26

pele10:

Perhaps you can give details of your formation for ManYoo and the scout reports for the various opponents so that the demi-gods here can give some advice or general guidance. I guess the rest of the clueless people (including myself) can benefit from this.

retired_elina

What "baffles" me most about the game is whether it has really evolved towards being a simulation or rather a game on its own. Tbh I get more and more the feeling that it's just a giant numerical optimization problem, whose rules have been developed by some people, with many others trying to figure out what the creators had in mind.

Look for example at wwfan's posts. I admit I haven't read them completely, but things like "rule of two" or mirroring sliders so that their sums amount to 20 (? sorry if I didn't get it correctly) have IMO absolutely nothing to do with football tactics, unless you're willing to use a lot of imagination.

I'm someone who doesn't want to spend that much time analysing the game's mechanism, knowing that if I miss some vital statistics the AI will immediately punish me for it.

Fair play to SI, IMO they have more or less managed to eradicate any unrealistic occurence in the game. Even looking at pele10's post, you can find absolutely nothing that hasn't happened IRL before. But it's too much of a choire to actually have to concentrate every game on little details and fight a constantly adapting AI.

IMHO SI's luck is that they have a monopoly in their market, otherwise I guess they would experience a drop in sales. Excuse the cliche, but it's a game after all. Lately I'm tempted more and more to ask myself the typical "girlfriend argument": you realise you're spending hours in front of a fancy spread-sheet, watching animated dots, do you?

retired_janae55

As a long term gamer of CM/FM, let me say a few words (Going back to the topic of goals to chances ratio)

Perhaps we would like to analyse what happens irl first before comparing it to FM? How many games in which Man Utd have totally dominated and had more shots on target than their opponents and lost? Only 1 that I can remember (might have been more) is the 1-0 loss to West Ham. For Chelsea, I don't think I can really remember any games in which Chelsea dominated but lost (maybe the 2-1 defeat to Boro at the start of the season). Arsenal and Liverpool may both have a couple, but definitely only numbers which I can count with 1 hand.

Maybe a comparison to FM? How many of you have played as Chelsea, Man Utd, R Madrid, etc all the big teams and dominate teams week in, week out and yet losing a lot more than expected? I am sure a large number of you gets frustrated by this. You can have 15 shots on target and 1 goes in, and the opponent can have only 2 shots on target and 2 goals, and you then lose 2-1. You then look at the highlights, their goalkeeper makes tons of superb saves while your own keeper fumbles easy saves despite only having to make 2 saves the whole game. And this situation happens once every 2, 3 games and you drop points which you wouldn't have.

Have to go to do work now, might post more later but isn't this the case of which most of you encounter and then frustrate you so much?

retired_mgavlick

The 'Rule of TYwo' or other framework systems and mirroring are obviously not 'real' football terms. However, they could easily be translated to 'real' language.

Rule of Two = Attackers should be more offensive minded than midfielders who should still be more offensive than defenders

Rule of One = It seems too many gaps are opening up in the formation so could the attackers be more defensive than previously in home games and defenders more attacking in away games.

Mirroring = As defenders are more defensive than attackers I would prefer for them to hit direct balls as they are less risky than short balls which can easily be intercepted.

All the TT&F threads do is try to translate such instructions into 'game talk'. It's not rocket science.

psychodad13th

I really don't know what you're talking about with the supersmart, or cheating, AI countering your every move. I've played FM06 before and now I'm plaing FM07 and the AI was and continues to be more or less inept at managing and coaching teams.

As for the sliders and tactics, me thinks it's pretty straightforward - you try to play to your strengths and your opponents weaknesses. If you have a couple of skillful and quick wingers you'd wanna play a wide game and put them on attacking, run with boll, crosses, and forward runs often. A strong midfielder with good tackling, bravery, positioning, marking etc but relatively poor passing ability you'd want to be defensive, hard tackling, to close down often, and to make few forward runs and through balls. If you have a huge striker with good numbers at heading, jumping, strenght etc using long balls with him as a targetman might be a good idea.

So I don't see much of a point in downloading someone elses tactics as they are likely to be good only with a particular set of players.
And besides, even if FM07 certainly isn't completely realistic, the enjoyment I get out of it is pretending it is. Thus, finding your players and tactics on the internet sort of takes away the thrill of discovering a gem or managing to beat Chelsea at Stanford Bridge as the underdog.