retired_seabass

I think Louis 1985 is right and i am going to prove it.I work and have a wife and kids and i dont have the time to spend on a single match(change this and change that...)so i desided to make thinks a lot easier for me.So within the game i changed all the preset formations to one i made and tested and did not work(i was loosing a lot 4-4-2).So now all the teams are using that tactic.I picked a tactic that was getting the better feeds from the forums and gave it a shot.As Man Utd i lost my two first official games against Reading(away)and charlton(home).I dont know why but the AI finds ways to beat me even if they are playing with a bad tactic.I dont know what to think about that.Do you?

retired_euluis

Just to back this up: Anyone remember who won Euro 2004?

England? Italy? Spain? France? Surely all these teams had much better players than Greece?

retired_shella12

It's a good discussion. There will be many different opinions here. But I think that IRL it really depends on what kind of team you have. If you are managing Barcelona of course it will be a lot easier becaue you have players who are world-class and just know how to play the game. They are better than most of their opponents and a lot of times they win just because of their talent. Im not saying Rijkaard ins't good. You do have to pick the starting eleven and stuff. But against most of the weak opponents they face weekly in La Liga, does he really have to spend hours on tapes of the opposition? Probably not, because Ronaldinho and those guys will figure out how to beat them.

If you are Koppel or Warnock. Whatever his name is. The Sheff Utd manager. You are managing one of the weaker teams in the Prem and your players abilities are limited, you have to do a lot more adapting then Fergie and Maurinho. Because in most games you are not favourites.

Now, if you compare this to FM. I think managing a weaker team is the realistic part. You have to be more specific and tactically on spot to get results when managing the one predicted last. But the unrealistic part is when you are managing the world class teams. If you make the littlest tactical mistake you will get hammered by anybody. Fergie has made some tactical mistakes in the past three seasons. By playing that stupid 4-5-1. Did they ever get hammerd by a bottom team? Did it cost them in a Champions League spot? No, because just based on the talent they have they were still able to win games.

So, I think that the tactics are a bit too strong in FM. I dont think a manager has or even can be as specific tactically as you have to be in FM in order to succeed. But that is my opinion. I think FM06 was on the spot.

retired_seabass

its just a game Not real life experiance,

retired_seabass

i agree with barca4ever AI sucks

retired_infinite_dreams

Well personaly i find that the tactics instructions and the changes you can make reflect reality in a good way. But i guess it depends on how you play the game, in my approach to the game i found it to be alot realistic.

I have to formations one attacking and one defensive, i guess most managers also have a attacking idea on how to play and an defensive. The players have learned on how to play depending on what tactic that is choosen by training and instructions from their manager.

So after i have set my individual instructions for each tactic (compare that to a real life manager instructing the player on how to play in the attacking and the defensive tactic they got for that formation) i never change them during the game or before the game after i got it working.

What i do change is the tempo, width, passing style, defensive line, time wasing and how the team should focus their passing and how the supply to the target man should be. All these changes happen first before game to match the opponents style of play, and during the game i change them also depending on how the game looks like. I can also change the forward runs and run with ball for certain players during a match, but i never touch the other individual settings during a game. If i want a certain player to be closed down more i use the opponent instructions. And in my point of view there is nothing unrealistic about that, ofc a manager changes the width, defensive line, tempo, etc during a game. He perhaps want to use the flanks more since he noticed the amount of space there is out there, then he tells the player to focus down the flanks more. Or he perhaps want to tell a player he should take it easier on forward runs because the opposition exploits it or if he encurage fowrard runs for a certain player during the game.

[QUOTE]
I think the main problem is that the emphasis on tactics in FM is too strong and innacurate. In real life tactics are defined by the players you choose not the other way around, in fact, chossing the right players is the primary variable of your tactics whereas is FM, its the opposite.
If Mourinho wants to play wide he puts Robben on, if Ferguson wants to play with a DM he buys Hargreaves and puts him on, if he wants to play 4-4-2 with 1 striker and a forward, he puts Saha and Rooney on, these players naturally bring alive these aspects into the gameplan.
[/QUOTE}

So it is not at all as you are saying. If Jose wants to play wide he tells the team to play a wider fotball and using the flanks more, he just dont throw Robben on the pitch and it happen automaticaly, ofc it helps playing wide bringing on Robben since he is a player that likes to play that way but at the bottom of it a player play the way he has been instructed by his manager. And then there is players that works better in different positions then others.

If some of you belive that a manager dont changes alot of things during a game then i seriously question how much football you understand and how much football you played and watch during the years.

busy91

I think that FM07 got it spot on because team instructions are not as closely linked to individual instructions as in the past FMs. You can afford to tinker with team instructions without affecting the shape of your team (based on the indiv instructions).

Managers do change things often during the game. I remember back then, where I come from, the team managers were told to back off the pitch because they were shouting too much instructions during the game and were considered too distracting by the other team.

It's quite amusing and I am not sure if it is the same elsewhere but I am certain that managers do make a lot of changes, more so after they conceded or let in a goal or nearing he end of the game.

Having said all that, the only niggling bit about FM is the match speed and highlight speed. To really soak in the game and play as realistically as possible, one has to play in extended highlights almost all of the game and after a while, it really gets a bit too time consuming. The game needs you to be detailed now, and you can only do so in extended highlights. If you are fast gamer, then this is something that you have to live with. You aren't able to fully enjoy the game and beat the AI properly if all you have are the commentaries for highlights.

dotseurat

a great post

on the general forum, someone posted an example, so si might take note

jerok

You miss the point..

All the above what you mentioned, Fergie will tell his players different instructions depending on who is actually playing. So if Rooney and Saha play they play differently to each other. These are tactical instructions and no different on FM.

You do not need the best 11 to win, just like IRL its about getting the best out of a player.

Too much empathis on tactics? I suggest some of you actually learn about the game of football if you think this is not the case IRL. </BLOCKQUOTE>

No you missed my point, or misunderstood what i meant to say, it was hard to describe... I didn't mean the emphasis on tactics is too strong, I mean there is no emphasis whatsoever on the tactical implications of choosing the right players for any given game.

Don't get me wrong, I know tactics are important, and I don't need to 'learn more about the game of football'...I'm not too shabby in FM at all, but there's no way you can tell me that Alex Ferguson could pick up this game and do well immediately due to his real life knowledge of the game.
My point being, the tactical side of FM ignores half of what makes a side or any given tactic succesful.

retired_janellewood86

There really is.

The example I always turn to is my Aston Villa game, but it's easiest to describe...

Simply, I had four strikers: Eddie Johnson, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Charles Doudin and Stefan Iversen. Each had different strengths. Johnson was quick and tall, but a little weaker than Iversen. He could win most headers, but had the advantage that he could also run down opposition defenders and harry them. Iversen, like I said, was tall and strong. He would win pretty much all of his headers, but was far less mobile. As for my quicker strikers, Doudin had sublime technique and finishing and could score some incredible strikes. His shot to goal ratio was very good. However, he was short and sluggish at times. Agbonlahor was nothing but a pace machine. Poor shooting, but could be everywhere, getting into excellent positions for tap ins and one-on-ones. The four worked superbly together.

So, if I were playing Manchester United with Vidic and Ferdinand at centre backs, I'd use Agbonlahor and Iversen. Why? Well, I needed pace to get in behind, but I needed a superb header of the ball due to the strength of the United back line. Johnson would lose out most times to Vidic. In one game I replaced him after half an hour. Against other teams, however, it paid to go more for the pace of Johnson and the finishing of Doudin. If I knew I could make loads of chances, I'd play Doudin because I know he'd finish them. But I'd need to play Agbonlahor if I needed to craft something in a tight game because his sheer pace created openings that otherwise wouldn't be there.

I had other positions like this, but up front it was most noticable. On the left wing I could play the experienced, excellent passing but sluggish and right-footed Clarence Seedorf, or the quicker, stronger, taller, left-footed but less insightful Gareth Barry. In goal, I could play my excellent shot stopper but poor distributer, or my excellent marshall of the defence but slightly more error prone keeper.

This is the same in all my games. Sometimes I need pace, sometimes I need creativity, sometimes I need strength, sometimes I need resilliance. A good squad will give you these options, and if you understand how your tactic and how FM works you'll know which 11 to pick.

Player choice is a huge factor. Especially when one takes into account morale, form and fitness. Nope, I can't agree with you that player choice is ineffectual.