retired_gwenlyn

I was playing as Valencia against Barcelona. Barcelona played a 4-4-2 with Xavi as one of the MCs. I couldn't help but watch the formation screen as it continually swapped between Xavi with no arrows and Xavi with a curvy back arrow to the central DMC position.

I know others have looked at the AI tactics before (AI Tactics thread was one I read before), but did you realise how many times it makes these changes. And remember, this is the only tactical change I could see (only because it is obvious on the formations screen) so how many other times are other changes being made to the tactics?

Can anyone tell me what the AI tactical engine was doing that made it necessary to change this so often in the game (and I'm not joking when I said that this changed - almost blinked - between the two positional settings for Xavi every minute).

Some may see this as an unfair advantage for the AI, but it's not really as I could make similar changes often in a game - but I just can't be bothered. So, how many times do you guys make tactical changes in a game and have you noticed this before?

p.s. If it helps, I have Silva in the AMC position and I think this is who Xavi was there to mark but I'm not sure.

retired_fitbeats

Often it depends on the scoreline, if the AI dont need to attack they often put a an barrow to DMC, especially if you have an AMC!

Cant relly tell you why it kept changing(or if anyone can) but perhaps the ball was freeflowing and if they had the ball they wanted to get at you and score and when they didnt they wanted protection.

I agree its not cheating as such but with such quick changes it means the AI could counter any formation and the user wouldnt see it happening in the match engine without watching a full match

retired_gwenlyn

I don't know about you, but in this version especially I've had to watch more games on Full or at least on Extended whereas before I played a lot of matches on Key moments only. I knew that more changes were being made that I would need to be aware of but I didn't realise just how many until I saw this for myself.

retired_miked

Yes I watch the formation screen all the time during a game, just so I am aware of any changes the opposition do straight away.

I once counted Birmingham change their tactics over 18 times in one half!!
All they seemed to do was have one CM keep having a Barrow on and off to the DMC just like you observed, the formation didn't change, it was very strange, and seemed to happen with most teams playing a flat 4-4-2.
It never got a mention in the match talk, only when the formation changed did it say 'Birmingham switch to a more defensive formation' etc.

Arsenal can sometimes change their formation over 8 times a game, even when there doesn't seem a need to, which I find annoying. How can you react to that?
Whenever you do change tactics to counter this it can seem to take an age before I see 'Making tactical changes' appear, which can often be too late.
I think it all depends on the managers hidden attributes whether they change it around often.
With the weird CM barrow thing could it be related to the individual instructions?

retired_gwenlyn

Funny that you should mention Arsenal because I played them not so long ago in the Champions League. The two wingers had farrows which continually went on and off. Also, Gilberto had this same unusual MC-DMC barrow blinking every 5 minutes. But what I also noticed was that the wingers changed places quite often. Does this merely show the positions when using the swap with player switch or is there an advantage to physically moving them on the formations screen?

This is quite intriguing now. But it would suggest that you need to be much more heavily involved in tactical changes in each game just to have a chance of keeping up.

retired_lanebo

Yeah, the barrow on defensive midfielder is quite annoying. It changes every five minutes, and I don´t know why? My question is: Is this the only change the AI does every five minutes. If it is, I think we are playing a chess game, and with a huge disadvantage, because AI can read what we do with total accuracy, and the human player can only guess what the AI is doing through the 2D match simulation.

retired_gwenlyn

I think we can assume that there are many tactical changes being made behind the scenes but unlike a chess match, we don't see the move (we can only see the formation information).

Something I think is happening with this is that it is using the match zones percentages to determine the formation changes at least. I played a game and watched the match zone on the left split and the formation of the opposition in the right split. It seems that if you go over 10% of a difference in the midfield zone it makes this MC-DMC barrow change. Equally, if you go over 5% or thereabouts in the defensive zone, the farrows for their wingers go off and on.

In many ways this makes sense for AI to do it this way, but now I am really feeling at a disadvantage since:

A. I can only have 2 screens at any one time (when I now need four splits)
B. I don't know what the match zone percentages are until the end of each period but the match engine knows exactly and can make the changes before me.

So, although I can understand what and why, it does mean that it is eliminating some of the realism since not even Alex Ferguson could get his players to listen to him every 2 minutes to make changes. Perhaps the AI should be restricted to the sliders and formations like the rest of us.

retired_fitbeats

I don't know about you, but in this version especially I've had to watch more games on Full or at least on Extended whereas before I played a lot of matches on Key moments only. I knew that more changes were being made that I would need to be aware of but I didn't realise just how many until I saw this for myself. </BLOCKQUOTE>

My problem with the 2d engine is that it is a representation of the coding and for me i cant trust it anymore. it dosnt seem to syncronise exactly - i cant explain it very well.

I have watched offsides shown as off or on and the game say otherwise and other silly things happening over and over due to different tactics.

The outcome is that when i see something now i tend not to believe it, and my tactics arnt based on development and what i would see in real life, moreover if im winning its right if im not its wrong and change it(regardless of shots, possession and everything else that would suggest its a good formation)

Hope i explained what is hard to put into words, my faith is shaken, it feels more like playing a machine than ever before and i think they have done that becuse the loyal fans put so much effort into winning