retired_rolando.perez

One quick scan across the tactics forum will no doubt give you the impression that something is missing... that something is unachieved. Without trying to discredit any discussions here, it seems no one has really set in stone anything we can believe fully. It is the nature of football, and FM, that we can't explain everything. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, this also applies to the very tactical instructions themselves in FM. We know mentality is supposed to affect positioning and passing, but this was learnt through observation, and as such how we can suggest with any degree of confidence that it doesn't affect other things? In this current state of affairs then, this very thread, regardless of it's intention, will be one in a series of ifs, buts and maybes. Nonetheless, this is the very reason why this forum is possible, the very reason there is in fact something to discuss. So, at the risk of opening up yet another avenue of tactical technique and belief, I will share with you my own findings of FM07.


APPROACH
My gut instinct is that we are approaching the game wrong, hence so many people struggle to find success. Our influence on the game, tactically, is controlled by a plethora of sliders, and these appear in two sets; Team and Individual. In my opinion, the reason we are approaching this wrong is because we treat the two as very seperate entities. We believe that, for example, if we set all individual mentalities manually, team mentality will not come into play. Either that or we distinguish them heirarchically; we suggest one set of instructions governs, or 'overides' the other. However, at the risk of causing controversy, I am going to state that they are equal, and work not seperately, but side by side - in tandem if you will.

Now, imagine a machine. Inside of it there are hundreds of wires, each doing its own thing, but all so integral to the maintenance of the machine. These are your Individual Instructions. However, once inside their shiny plastic casing, they are no longer visible. Instead on the casing is a much more user-friendly interface, a set of buttons that govern the machine. These are your Team Instructions. If this analogy is to work then, the characteristics of this machine must match our tactics.. so, that means that once set, the wires can be left alone, unless they need to be repaired. Could this ring true of Individual Instructions? And, in use the user of the machine will only operate via the big buttons on the outside, the Team Instructions. I guess what I'm saying is that Individual Instructions apply in all cases, but Team Instructions should be changed to match the situation. Individual is generic, Team is specific...

'That is a bold claim' is probably a thought running through your mind right now, but I wouldn't suggest this approach if it didn't work for me. I find great success using this method, with rare individual tweaks once they are set (repairs if you like). Instead, I prepare my team for battle with the team sliders, safe in the knowledge that my players have been fine-tuned to a set of instructions they have been using throughout the season. When you think about it, this could very well be the way the game was intended by SIGames. It seems pointless to have Team Instructions, especially ones that are available in Player Instructions (like mentality, CD, CF etc) if their just going to be overidden anyway. Instead, players follow their individual instructions to the 'tune' of the team instructions. For example, a player with defensive mentality in a team with attacking mentality, will play further up the pitch than the same player in a defensive team. Similarly, if a team has high-closing down, players assigned to close down rarely will still make more attempt to chase the ball than players in a team that has been instructed to close down rarely. And this is key when looking for success in FM 07.


INDIVIDUAL INSTRUCTIONS
Individual instructions are commands that are set, and re-set every now and then. They are used to reflect individuals qualities, like player attributes, and are used to designate specific positional and tactical settings.

Mentality
I'm sure WWFan won't mind me quoting his saying that this is the most important instruction. It designates position, and passing tendencies. High mentality means a higher position on the pitch and more frequent 'forward/offensive' passing - low mentality is the opposite. When approaching the game in this way, mentality is very important, particularly in relation to other players. However, I am very skeptical of the belief that mentalites must be proportional to the nearest player - I am currently playing a veru successful career with Woking with my five attacking players on 17 mentality, and my five defensive players on 4. The predicted 'gap' in my midfield isn't apparent, if present at all. However, since the five offensive players are all on the same mentality, they provide passing options for one another, and similarly my defenders provide cover for one another. This concept of passing/cover options is one you should always think about whilst setting mentality.

Creative Freedom
Another important instruction, CF is fabled to govern a players 'right' to abandon his instructions in favour of his better judgement. With good players, it's often useful to issue CF generously since the players often know better than you on the pitch. With Woking, I have given attacking players high-middle CF to allow them to exert individual brilliance (even Woking players will surprise you!). On the other hand, defensive players need to follow their instructions more strictly, and so it is wise to limit their CF. Remember, individual CF is responsible for individual instructions; team CF governs how much the team follow team instructions.

Passing Style
As a general rule of football, its longer passing from the back and shorter towards the front. That way, there is no messing around from defenders whose poor passes are much more likely to be punished. Team passing style is situation specific (as with all team instructions) and while players will play 'team' passes (more with higher CF), they tend to regard individual passing with more importance.

Closing Down
Again, vitally important, and it can not only affect players defensively as they chase the ball, but can positionally hinder or help players offensively. My 'big-man' forward at Woking has a high-CD so that he chases the ball to win it in the air, rather than stand of it. It is crucial to understand the impact CD has on your attack, as well as defence. Team CD makes the team close down according to its instruction, while generally maintaining the formation shape.


The other instructions are formation specific, and player-attribute specific, and should be set according to those factors.


Next I will talk more about team instructions and try to get templates up for people to further understand these ideas. Cheers!

retired_janellewood86

neonlights!

I always enjoy your contributions, and was glad to get some more musings from you.

It's a bold claim.

I agree that you shouldn't see the team and individual sliders as different worlds. Everything we touch has an impact on something else, even down to who we send up to the near post for a corner kick. Essentially, we need to look at both.

I also use the same approach as you in regards to using the team sliders to change to the opposition demands and use my individual sliders to "make repairs", if you will.

However, I have to disagree on some points, because that's just who I am.

I believe that individual instructions override team instructions BUT I agree that if you treat individual and team as separate entities you'll lose a team balance. For that reason, I try to use global settings for individual instructions where it is appropriate and try not to stray too far from my "natural" team settings if possible. By that, I mean nearly all of my team (perhaps the back four and 'keeper excepted) are on team passing, for example.

However, I would always set tempo, defensive line, width and other more team specific instructions with the overall picture in mind. If my "average" passing length is "long" for my team, I'm not going to play slow tempo just because my team slider is set to "6". Similarly, my team instructions may say "10" team mentality, but my "average" may be a lot higher. Thus, I'm not going to play a rediculously low defensive line.

What I'm saying is, I think that the individual instructions will override the team instructions for that individual, but that individual should not, unless exceptional circumstances call for it, be utterly removed from the global system of the side. Does this make sense?

Great thread, and I hope to see some more in the coming days/weeks. :thup:

retired_wh0isj3ss3

I dont agree with you on the "passing style"; I have passing 1 and tempo 1 on my Fisher. I have yet to witness any stupid pass. They clear the ball very well, and keep the defence tight. So far I have W33 D2 L0 For 85 Ag24 G:+61. Not bad for a team that was tipped 22nd out of 22 teams?

When it comes to CF on the defenders I agree. It has to be low, as well as for the GK. But; I use CF3 on the players upfield, so I have to disagree with you there. I have a gameplan, and I expect my players to follow it strictly. At least until I get some great stars onboard.


Btw: I already understood that mentality was THE most important setting by reading the handbook that followed the game:

Quoted directly from the handbook:

"Mentality is probably the most important of the tactical instrucions"


Cheers!

retired_rolando.perez

Millie
Thanks for the kind words, thoroughly appreciated.

I agree with your points entirely, but I feel that even when you DO assign an individual instruction, it's team counterpart still plays a role.

Let's say your team has a mentality of 15 (attacking), and a defender has mentality of 5 (defensive). The average of the two is 10, and this, although perhaps not AS extreme is how the system works. I don't think it is an average, but the high team mentality does come into effect. How effective is determined by creative freedom. If you make the player follow each set of instructions with the same CF, then it will balance out evenly and the actual mentality will be roughly 10 for example. However, if you have CF of 5 on individual but a CF of 15 on team, the player will follow his individual instructions far more closely than his team, and his mentality may only be boosted a notch or two in this way.

Of course, this is a theory, that's all. Whilst it rings true in all the tactics I am currently using, or seems to, it still is just a philosphical outlook on the workings of the game. I do concur that your idea is a popular one though, and whilst I don't necessarily endorse it, I must respect it. Still, if you ever feel like it, it might be wise to make a few observations in light of what I have posted to see if you too can spot the link between instructions.


Chriseldiablo
My description of passing style isn't really the focal point of the thread to be honest. It's not the settings themselves I am interested in at the moment; I am focusing on the relationship between the two sets of instructions; team and individual. I think the way they work together is crucial in gaining leeway with regards to finding a solid, reliable formula for producing tactics in FM 07. I am not arguing for or against any particular settings of instructions, this is not the intention of the thread. The same applies for creative freedom; it's not the optimum notches I was describing, rather the relationship with the team instructions.

Secondly, I also feel the exact source of the quote about mentality is also irrelevant. The message in the quote is important though since mentality is of utmost importance. The most recent place I read the quote was in WWFan's thread so forgive my unfortunate mistake

retired_mgavlick

About time you resurfaced. I have always enjoyed your unusual perspectives on FM and read your threads with interest.

I wish I could agree with your tandem theory but I'm afraid I have seen no evidence to suport it. I'm most interested in your take on creative freedom as I'm still unsure as to how best employ it.

retired_zaheer4313khan

interesting topic, regarding the relationship between the team and individual instructions. Im not quite sure on the true answers on that debate, i view it as the individual overiding the specific entities on the team insructions, but obvious it doesnt overide certain entities that cannot be configured in the individual settings like tempo and width.

Obvious testing would involve extreme differences between team and individual instructions in order to analyse which system is taking effect more or what is possibly overiding or not. I suppose the easiest way is can we not get an official statement from the programmers themselves to tell us how the game actually works on this aspect??

retired_janellewood86

neonlights
I don't currently subscribe to the tandem theory, but if you're making those assumptions and they're working for you, that's great. I think it could work for others too, not necessarily because it works as written but because it gets people to think about a balance in the team and therefore keeps play tight and focussed.

You could be right - however, I think the results are more important than whether the method is slightly flawed. If that's looking good, then thumbs up!

xaps
SI came out recently in a thread (cannot remember which one) that individual instructions always override team ones.

However, as was also pointed out, the game was designed so that you would only use a target man if you had "use target man" ticked in the team instructions - only play gets channeled to a target man regardless of "ticking" if you have a man in the target man list.

One poster (and I apologise for forgetting whom) claimed that perhaps the same may be true of the team vs individual debate - even though SI intended a separation, this might not actually be the case.

Personally, I'm not sure either way. All I know is some of the things I do work, so I keep doing them, and hope everything will be OK.

retired_wh0isj3ss3

wwfan:

I dont see any 'link' between team and individual mentality. When you tick it, it overrides the team mentality, except the setting 1 & 20 (All def & Gung Ho style).

retired_bethx

It could be me, but I perceive that there is a difference when I alter team mentality.

I am currently using a variant of RoO, where for every match (home or away), the GK is set to a mentality of 7 through to the advanced striker being set to 14. I use a global mentality of 8-10 for away games and 11-13 for home. My perception is that moving the team mentality slider through this range alters the performance of the team and frequently appears to change the course of the match.

I am a victim ( ) of wwfan's advice about not using extremes from FM06, as all my team and individual settings are normal. I tinker with the team settings within the match, only changing the individual setttings for creative freedom when making substitutions. I also mark and closedown using opposition instruction from a base of default individual and team instructions (DC's and GK are set to a CD of 7). So I pretty much follow the approach eloquently described by Neon Lights in his first post.

Whilst in two seasons I only have the FA Cup and two 4th place finishes to show for managing Tottenham, which is very average, but does show consistency.

retired_mgavlick

Which is what I have been saying on and off ad infinitum. As I mentioned in my previous thread, I would love the tandem assumption to be true but don't think it is as I can't see an iota of diference in play when I change it.