retired_janellewood86

This theory has the same flaws aston, because teams with crap ass managers would get crap advice. Its the same with scouts in FM 2007, good ones spot good players, crap ones don't.
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Then play with Chelsea or Arsenal until you get the hang of the game, and then move to something more challenging. The game should be easier for the top teams - that's sort of the point of being able to choose your club.

A few points. Number one, the AI does not completely change its formation ten times in a match. Example:

A 4-2-4 is a 4-4-2 where the wingers are told to stay forward and not bother defending - which is what most managers playing a 4-4-2 would do when needing a goal, yes?

The 3-3-2-1-1 is a 3-5-2 formation where the wingers are told to concentrate on defence and one of the strikers is told to track back. OK, 4-4-1-1 would perhaps be more realistic for teams playing 4-4-2, but I've seen plenty of teams play 3-5-2. It's just not that common in England.

I agree, however, that only the best managers should be able to constantly flick formations at will and be able to out-fox the semi-intelligent human player, especially if there's a gulf in class.

To say the match engine in no way "resembles the beautiful game" is something I cannot agree with. It's very accurate in my opinion. OK, it has glaring faults with it, but it has got better and better over the generations. I have a number of complaints about it, but I'm sure they will continue to be ironed out as the game goes on. It is the AI managers that need sorting more than the match engine as far as I'm concerned.

And as for the 14 tactis: one person has done that and posted his findings. You don't need to do that at all. I find four tactics is the most you really need, exactly as you said. From there, it's shape and tempo changes which help you adapt to the opposition. Every manager does that, from the top to the bottom. Even Sir Alex. From my base tactics I don't need to change that radically to keep up with the AI... most of the time...

Are you serious? Really? Pro-Evo is an arcade game with glaringly unrealistic elements - like the fact that pacy players lose their pace if you go up a few stars. PES is also much less detailed than Football Manager and only has to resemble top class football, not even Conference standard.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but having read some other of Hector's contributions, I know he's not being arsey for the sake of it. He has a genuine point. If the game seems too in depth, too unrealistic, too hard, then don't buy any future versions, stop playing and sell it on E-Bay or trade it in at Gamestation or something. A lot of people want to knock the game, but only a few seem to have genuinely thought about why they don't like it.

I agree with that, but I think that all the ass man has to do is draw certain stats to your attention. That's really the only way he can help. So, sure, with poor ass mans and a limited database it wil become repetative. But once you've learnt the game better you shouldn't need him anyway. Hopefully.

retired_dellydoolittle

Are you serious? Really? Pro-Evo is an arcade game with glaringly unrealistic elements - like the fact that pacy players lose their pace if you go up a few stars. PES is also much less detailed than Football Manager and only has to resemble top class football, not even Conference standard.

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Movemant of players is far better in PES than in FM. Meybe it is easier becouse it is ardade game.
EX: I saw maybe twice that FB run over winger, he stops runing when he is near your winger. Even though I play him attacking (20), with runs set to often....IRE it happens all the time when team is playing attacking....
I could name meny more eyamples....

retired_Madmick

To be honest. Business wise. SI should listen to the mass and introduce some sort of "difficulty level". it will DEFINATELY boost the sales i reckon.

I like the difficulty of FM. However, it IS true that it MAY be time-consuming. OVERLY time-consuming for some. the fact that we need THEORIES, not simple ones, but PAGES after PAGES of THEORIES to work things out is abit. well. fustrating for some. and Some may find help quite hard to come by. btw, reading pages after pages after pages of theories by the gurus of this forum may come as a pain to some. i understand.

i think people have their own right to their opinion and it is up to SI and their marketing side to choose whether to listen to their customers.

For me... sometimes, only just sometimes, i wish it could be easier to play and comprehend. so that i can relieve some stress that occurs in my ongoing daily life... stress from my school, stress from my exams, stress from my work. etc. On other occassions, i enjoy the difficulty of sorting out the "theories" behind a computer game that tries to emulate real life football. it brings some joy to work out something by yourself. although it can be stubbornly fustrating as well when you have failed.

btw, it doesn't help to comment stuffs like "your rubbish", "your stupid" or "go play something esle... like legos". "solving" or "understanding" the game doesn't make you more (or less) smarter than people who are fustrated by this game.

so yep. this is a forum where ideas and ideals can be shared and heard, and im sure SI will appreciate if the more higly skilled FM-ers would help out the fustrated players rather than spawn constant irresposible remarks.

lol

retired_nabrooks

[quote]A few points. Number one, the AI does not completely change its formation ten times in a match. Example:

A 4-2-4 is a 4-4-2 where the wingers are told to stay forward and not bother defending - which is what most managers playing a 4-4-2 would do when needing a goal, yes?

The 3-3-2-1-1 is a 3-5-2 formation where the wingers are told to concentrate on defence and one of the strikers is told to track back. OK, 4-4-1-1 would perhaps be more realistic for teams playing 4-4-2, but I've seen plenty of teams play 3-5-2. It's just not that common in England.[/quote[

A team comes to my place with the intention of defending playing a 442. Someone in the crowd sneezes or something else happens to send them into panic mode where they switch to perhaps 451. I score early in the first half they switch to 33211. Start of the second half they're back at 442 looking for an equaliser. Maybe they get it and switch straight back to 33211, I score again, out comes the 442, or maybe the 451/433 or if it's late on the 424. Repeat to fade. Oh and I'm playing in England btw.

Aswell as formation changes you constantly have players swaping positions in the hope they stumble across something that works, and everytime they change I have to stop the game and make alterations because I'm supposed to believe the players I'm paying thousands of pounds a week aren't clever enough to realise that the striker I had one of my centre-backs specifically marking is now playing on the wing and doesn't need to be man marked anymore. Or that the DM I have on hard-tacking shouldn't do so when he's back in the box defending a corner. Where is this supposed AI ?


They don't out-fox though, they use brute force, basically keep trying different things until they stumble across something that works. Believe me, I'd love to think I'd been out-witted by a manager rather than watch them cycle through the various formations and move players around til they find something that works. Love it.

I started a new game recently with a Championship side and after an admittedly decent opening month teams had already started dragging the 33211 out. I'd spent a decent amount of time setting the game up bringing in new staff, loaning players, setting up tactics, training etc amd after only 5 games I quit and deleted. I just couldn't be doing with the monotony of apending 70 minutes every match trying to break teams down only for them to launch probably their only attack of the game and more than likely score from it unless I switch to a defensive formation. Totally unrealistic and more to the point DULL.

I've had my central defenders chase their own keepers kick half way up the pitch only for the ball to be pinged back over their head to the striker behind them they were supposed to be marking, the throw-in issue is well documented (and hasn't been fixed in years) and they now have the new long throw in their arsenal. Where is the defend long throw option ? If I put a guy on the near post he's usually surrounded by defenders (not that my throws make it anywhere near him regardless of throwers stat), they put one there I have one man marking him who usually gets turned inside out. Am I missing something here ?

Defenders running back to make goal-line clearances which were running through to the keeper anyway with no opposition players anywhere near, players making panicky clearances and putting the ball out for a corner/throw in when there isn't a player within 20 yards of them, goalkeepers taking free-kicks from the half-way line when there's a defender standing a foot away with better f/k stat, central defenders going up for direct free-kicks right on the edge of the box and my f/k taker with a 17/18 stat decides to play it to one of said defenders who have poor finishing/long shot stats.

Shots ricocheting off defenders/walls 50 yards upfield right to the feet of the only player the opposition have up there, with my defenders who are supposed to be marking him nowhere near. Players called off-side with 4 defenders a clear couple of feet behind him WHILE HE'S IN HIS OWN HALF, players NOT called off-side who are half-way in my half with my defenders on halfway line. These aren't in ANYWAY decisions that would/could be made irl.

I could go on but I'm getting bored now. It's these flaws and many others like them that detract from the game , and every time I lose a goal/match due to one of them I just feel like quitting and binning the game. I won't
hold my breath they'll be fixed anytime soon either as new 'features' usually take precedence and the low priority ones usually drag on for years.

I was over-stating a point with the 14 tactics. The constant tweaking throughout a match is the frustrating part. SI removed the wibble/wobble section citing they were unrealistic and gave too much control over a player and his movement (and the way they were implemented I wouldn't argue), yet what we have now is even more so. When SAF sends his teams out expecting a win, does he have to constantly tell every player what mentality to play at throughout a match ? Does he have to tell his team to slow the game down and not throw so many bodies forward if they're holding on to a lead ? Does he ********. Sure, he may make the occasional gesture from the touchline, but most of it is common sense or what's been hammered in in training. If they want another goal he may throw an extra striker on for a defender, or the other way round if they're trying to close a game out, but he DOESN'T have to tell them to push forward when looking for a goal or to sit back when holding a lead.

It wouldn't be so bad if I could load multiple tactics for use in certain situations so that I didn't have to constantly stop the game to make alterations, or when the AI went 424 my players would automatically know how to react, but it's more of a chore than a game that's supposed to be fun atm.

retired_nabrooks

Er, buggered the first couple of quotes up somehow

drewopel

See, this is the kind of worthwhile stuff that is worth entertaining, rather than the endless bleating of 'make it easier'.

'Serious' casual gamers don't want a game with less difficulty, they want a game that takes less time to play. This option obviously takes a bit of setting up, but still means you can rattle through a season in the short time you have available.

retired_nicole2401

See, this is the kind of worthwhile stuff that is worth entertaining, rather than the endless bleating of 'make it easier'.

'Serious' casual gamers don't want a game with less difficulty, they want a game that takes less time to play. This option obviously takes a bit of setting up, but still means you can rattle through a season in the short time you have available. </BLOCKQUOTE>

There isn't much difference between outsourcing tasks to the ai and decreasing the game's difficulty. Everyone wants to avoid the "difficulty setting" label because mentioning it makes them a newb, but anything that automates parts of the game are difficulty settings.

drewopel

Not really.

It would still take time to set up the parts you wish to automate, and there's still no guarantee of success.

It's a fary cry from plugging in a downloaded tactic at the start of the season, and hitting continue till you hit the end of the season with a 95% win ratio, which is what most people want.

What gets me is that there's still a thriving community for CM 01/02 that produce regular data updates, yet no one seems to have bothered for the later versions. Seeing as FM 06 seems to be the pinnacle, in a lot of people's eyes, it's strange that there isn't the same demand to update this version, so that the tactically lacklustre amongst us can still get enjoyment from the series.

tbh, I get no enjoyment from training, and it's one of the things I would like to have automated (more than just everyone on general), but I just have to accept it for the way it is just now.

I've said it before, if you can't be bothered with tactics, go on holiday before every match, and the assistant manager will take care of it for you. Job done.

Fisher

I think there should be a "Steve Staunton mode".

A "Bobby Robson" figure would be there to give you advice on how to play the game. He would act as a sort of tutorial - giving you help on looking at backroom staff, how to make your own successful training schedules, and tactical advice.

retired_janellewood86

Just have to be careful he doesn't have a stroke on you.