retired_Myoplex

firstly are u a mackem? hehe
secondly yea its unrealisic, its not picky. everyday i find this game less relaistic, for example work permits! 80% of mine are turned down!

retired_prttylilthang45

Because segments of play within a game are pre-calculated and there is nothing you can do to change it - its like when your under pressure in the last few minutes and you select 'detailed' tactical change (to make a sub and waste a bit of time) - the ball will go out of play as many times at it wants to before your allowed to do so and if they score in that time - "tough, its your tactics" ... pre-calculated segments you see that you can't affect ..

retired_fanito

If it's precalculated, then what is the point of in game tweaking? Am I missing something here?

Because segments of play within a game are pre-calculated and there is nothing you can do to change it - its like when your under pressure in the last few minutes and you select 'detailed' tactical change (to make a sub and waste a bit of time) - the ball will go out of play as many times at it wants to before your allowed to do so and if they score in that time - "tough, its your tactics" ... pre-calculated segments you see that you can't affect .. </BLOCKQUOTE>

retired_janellewood86

I covered this supposed "superkeeper"/"crappy striker" scenario over a season with Foligno in Italian Serie C2, and then continued to look out for situations which appeared similar to this throught my Foligno career - indeed, through all my FM saves to date.

This isn't a thread hijack - merely a link to my results. I've re-read most of what I and other people put, and I still find it relevant:
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717...202041282#7202041282

N.B. in particular the match stats from the Foligno and PSV Eindhoven saves.

What I found, and I still find relevant, is the following (quoted directly from the thread):

1) Whenever a team had more than 5 shots on target, they scored at least 1. The tactics of both my team and the AI (allowing for the re-ranking of us as one of the top teams) always allowed a team that at least had some pressure to put the ball away.

2) The AI won as many as I did when one team that was obviously on the back foot actually won. One of these was a crucial game in the playoffs, in my favour. So much for AI cheating.

3) It was in games I should have won easily that I created loads of chances, but few goals. And it was obvious from the start why. The opposition flooded their box and meant I couldn't get good shots off. In those games, I rarely made clear cut chances (maybe one or two one-on-ones or free headers), thus I only scored one or two. However, providing I kept an eye out for opposition break-aways I managed to get at least a score draw.

I stand by my original premise - there are no superkeepers.

As a little addendum to that, I would quote a couple of examples from my current Arsenal season.

On only two occassions do I feel like I've been "cheated" by the AI - that is to say, I've deserved to win but haven't. One was a 2-3 defeat to Reading who created four chances in the entire game, though each of them was practically unmissable (the other a blinding save by Lehman), while I had 8 shot on target and another 10 went wide. I was by far the better team, outclassed them totally, yet fell asleep three times and ended up losing. Interestingly, though, my best moments of pressure came after I was 3-0 down, so should I blame myself? I always do, though on this one I felt I had the right to feel a little sorry for myself.

The other game was a 1-1 draw against a 10 man Blackburn side who created, literally, one shot which found its way in. I, on the other hand, went 1-0 up early on, kept the pressure on and never looked in danger.

I can take it though - twice in two years is fair enough. If, however, it's happening to you regularly, it must be something wrong with your tactics, because many others will swear blind it doesn't happen to them. Now, what they are doing that you're not I have no idea - that should be the starting point for more discussion.

As always, I renew my appeal for people to upload these "AI CHEATS!" games to FMDownloads for me to look over. And yet, despite repeated calls nobody ever does. Odd, that...

retired_janellewood86

If it's precalculated, then what is the point of in game tweaking? Am I missing something here?

Because segments of play within a game are pre-calculated and there is nothing you can do to change it - its like when your under pressure in the last few minutes and you select 'detailed' tactical change (to make a sub and waste a bit of time) - the ball will go out of play as many times at it wants to before your allowed to do so and if they score in that time - "tough, its your tactics" ... pre-calculated segments you see that you can't affect .. </BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Each "turn" is precalculated. That is, it precalculates the game to the final whistle from the point that the last tactical change was made from either team. Every time the tactics are changed, from either team, the game recalculates. This, I believe, saves processor power from having to calculate every single kick in real time.

The upshot of this is not that the game has already decided the result and nothing you can do will change it - what it means is that every time you change your tactics the game re-calculates how the rest of the game will pan out. This is done in segments, which usually end with the ball going out of play, but do not necessarily end every time the ball goes out of play.

Thus, while the ball has gone out of play, that "segment" of the calculation may not be over, and therefore you can't change your tactics at that time.

To all intents and purposes, though, it doesn't really matter. If you're watching the formation screen while playing the game on any highlights speed, the AI very, very, VERY rarely scores immediately after changing to 4-2-4. You nearly always have a couple of "game minutes" to respond. The AI does it so often, you should be able to deal with it and see it coming anyway.

retired_Myoplex

i like to watch the goals i concede and find out what went wrong, when its a long distance free kick i'm relieved what can u do? honestly every team is gonna get a free kick and shoot and score every now and then but when its a cross that should have been cleared goes in i find these ones annoying and my fault

retired_skullking1971

Yep mate a makem and proud! You lot used to think you were light years ahead of us, i think that will prove wrong next season.

But i'm in agreement over the work permits. It spoils the game.

retired_Myoplex

haha cant wait for you to be in the premiership next year proper derby, sorry for going off topic!! yea work permits are so annoying, i use genie scout and i find players with huge potential but cant get them because i cant get a work permit! the chance should be 10% more realistic

retired_helhencal

Hey Millie I wanted to post in your soopakeeper thread but its been closed? Good reading btw.

I had a game recently which resulted in a 15 shot 7 on target 0 goals scenario to the AI! :-) Thank god it wasn't me or I would have ranted.

Also not to go entirely OT here but it would be interesting to see a study on the amount of FIRST shots by the AI which actually go in, because I feel thats waaay inrealistic how often it happens.

retired_noor81

Millie, since you're here and I can't post in the other thread of yours.

Thanks for taking time to compile the data about super keepers/shots, etc. However, while I appreciate it, I'm still not entirely convinced.

Although I didn't take the time to record things as you did, I did notice through the game years and several careers that no matter what type of tactic I used, I was ending a lot of games in which the opposition keeper was selected as MoM. Now, those are just ratings and shouldn't be totally indicative of anything, however they are a viable indication of performance, at least.

And when I say 'a lot of games', I mean it happened often enough that I noticed.

Now I don't personally mind having to face great keepers. I see it as a challenge. What I do mind a bit is for average or just good keepers to seemingly up their game every time they face me. I should still have the data on my current game, two or three years into things, so I can go back and check thoroughly if necessary, but I took a look whenever a keeper of theirs got MoM, and checked back to see their form and how many MoMs he had received in the season.

Not surprisingly -although I won't say it was every time- most of the times I faced a MoM keeper, looking back at his form it was generally quite average.

For example, keepers who ended up with a rating of 8 at the end of the game and were given the MoM award, their recent form was probably 6-7-7-6-6, or something much like it. Their season ratings were not much apart from that. Furthermore, I checked how many times they had previously received MoM awards, in case I just happened to face keepers that were having a very good season back to back, and in most cases they had received very few, if any at all. Many of this MoM keepers had received their first award after the game against me, while the ones that had previously received it, it only happened once or twice. They were not constantly good performers by any stretch.

The conclusion that I reached, after examining the kind and number of chances my tactics were creating (I usually do tend to play short passing-slow tempo. That's just how I like it, and is not related to anything), I had to conclude that while they were not 'super keepers', many of these keepers certainly raised their game against me considerably over their normal season average, and in many cases received their first (or only!) season MoM award against me.

Like I said, I should still have the historical data in there. I can go check. Is this something you'd like to look into?