retired_lachina

I feel mentality affects passing and decisions like running with ball, forward runs etc.

Whether they are willing to commit to go up the field or just clear the ball.

retired_janellewood86

That's not what I'm saying. We can all do things we don't intend.

For instance, it was the intention of SI that when you put a target man in the target man box that you would have to select "use target man" to get him to be the focus of play. Only, you don't. Without the tick, he works as a "semi-target man" who is used more than he would be as a "normal" player, but not as much as an out-and-out target man. This is not what SI intended, but it's a useful tool.

The argument appears to be, from some quarters, that although SI intended there to be no relationship between individual mentality and team mentality, there may well be.

There is a difference between an unintentional slip and a lie. Quite a big one, in fact.

You're right - what does mentality do. Again, SI seem very unwilling to actually explain what the sliders do and how they might affect each other. Here's hoping the '08 manual tells us something useful.

retired_warrior_soul

I've been trying to make some observations using the option to watch the match in full. What I've been doing is trialing similar players with similar instructions, with only the mentality differing. It's all being done with a 4-4-2 and very basic instructions.

I have two MC's, one MC has mentality at 15, or the very first notch of 'attacking', the other is at 5 or 'defensive'. It was first tried with a team mentality of 10, later 2, and lastly 19. In all cases, similar discrepancies occured:<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>The two midfielders still move in tandem, mentality has had absolutely ZERO effect on their positioning on the pitch.
<LI>The defensive minded midfielder has had significantly more contact with the ball. When I further set their mentalities to 1 and 20 respectively, the defensive minded midfielder played almost double the amount of passes.
<LI>I gave them mixed forward runs, the defensive minded player rarely made a run, the attacking one did, occassionally.</UL>

Similar tests were done with wingers. One set defensively, the other attacking with all other instructions identical and very basic. Another was performed with forwards, and later I may try to test fullbacks and centrebacks, but I think the effects are already becoming clear.

I think it's safe to say that mentality doesn't seem to have much, if any effect on the positioning of players. What it does effect is the way in which they play, whether more or less of a risk factor et al.

So, what we can say, I believe, is that the shape of the team won't be effected by individual mentalities. Shape will be effected by the defensive line and width, along with individual instructions that drag players out of place such as forward runs etc.

The way I see it, individual mentality DOES override team mentality. But how much depends on whether they work in conjunction or not. I tend to think they don't, but it's a possibility that IM works in addition to TM, as in 'attacking' or 'defensive' in terms of the team mentality, so in other words more attacking or more defensive then what the team is (or of course, normal being exactly the same as the TM).

I don't think they work in conjunction, but I certainly won't rule it out either.

retired_warrior_soul

I apologise, but I forgot to mention some things.

In order to better conclude the effects of the tests, I ran them in reverse as well. So the player who was used in an attacking mentality was also trialled defensively, and vice-versa. And to little suprise, similar results were obtained.

And I also trialled, as Millie put it, a "semi-target man". Without advising the team to play with a target man, I put on forward in the targetman list in the team tactics. The result was that one forward contested 25+ headers, and the other non-target man less than 10. Results here were consistantly the same, sometimes the difference was as big as 30!

I'd like to try the same with a "semi-playmaker"

retired_janellewood86

You can!

A well used playmaker can touch the ball over a hundred times during a good match and still involve his team mates. Try it and check the pass/pass completion in the individual stats after the game.

My position exactly.

retired_mattandrewsmom

Interesting findings you have there. However, one might argue that mentality never had an effect on player positioning in the first place, so that would mean neither team instructions nor player instructions could change anything about the positioning, just the "risk factor" as you call it.

Maybe it would give interesting results if one of the midfielders (or whichever position you'd test it on) had team instructions and the other one had individual instructions.

It is very likely that individual instructions don't alter positioning. You can see this in the fact that standard tactics don't involve any individual instructions by default (mentality set to 10), yet if you play those tactics you don't have your goalkeepers and defenders running out of position.

I'd say that the mentality only has an effect on the style of play that a player has. And individual instructions probably override team instructions, but if all players share the same team instructions, there might still be positional bias (e.g. defenders are defensively biased and attackers are offensively biased). These are just assumptions of course, I haven't tested anything.

If it's true that mentality only affects the style of play, it seems it would make instructions such as holding up, creativity and passing style redundant.

retired_cindymerc

I also assumed that mentality does not affect positioning. I played both CB's on menatality 2 on normal def line and then CB's on mentality team with normal def line.

The results were the same against a fast team, they positioned the same and there was space behind.SI need to look at this as the in game tips state " if your cb's are allowing to much space put their mentality on ultra defensive or lower def line".

I can say the same on closing down, as many times I set closing down on 2 or 3 notches from left the defender goes to close down striker before his own box. the only difference i notice in closing down is how far they follow from their own zonal area but their reaction when it drops in their are is the same.

retired_cindymerc

In fact I've givenupn tactics altogether after watching match in full. I tell players dont TTB an yet my striker plays TTB's to no one down flank.Or a player set to hold up ball on counter and waiting plays aimless balls on wing.

If CF is low players spend long on ball and f normal they ignore instructions, so until fm 2009 or something......

retired_cindymerc

sorry should be "if normal they....

retired_B-Scott

if individual instructions are ticked they over-ride the team instruction - the hover action on the tooltip says so

The exception to this rule is the at either end of the mentality scale, which is designed to either make a last ditch goal attempt or conversely throw in an all out attack.

This is why you see goalkeepers often join the attack in the final stages of cup games - sh*t or bust