retired_happydawg

I have spent the best part of fifteen hours, today, trying to put together a workable set of tactics, going from the official manual and the wealth of information in the forums.

I played as Hull City. Used only the in game players at the club at the start of the game. I set my tactics as my favourite 4-1-3-2, both wide and narrow. My home tactic had team instructions thus. Mentality. 12. C.F. 5. P.S. 8. Tmp. 10. Wdth. 12. C.D. 12. T.W. 10 and D.L. 12.
Tackling was normal for all. Focus passing was mixed and I had tight marking for the team.

My away tactic was the mirror of the home tactics with counter attacking on.

My player instructions were the in game default ones. The following are my league positions after twenty five games.

1st try. P25 W6 D5 L14 Pts23 Pos21
2nd try. P25 W8 D3 L14 Pts27 Pos18
3rd try. P25 W4 D3 L18 Pts15 Pos20
Fnl try. P25 W7 D4 L14 Pts25 Pos23.

As you can see, not very good. I kept as close to the manuals guidance as I could. I used as gospel the first paragraph on page 26, under the heading "TACTICS". The final two lines read as follows. "Setting up your tactics in FM 2008 can be as simple or as detailed as you wish. This section details the tactics screen and various options available to the user."

From this, I assume that all the information I need is within the following five pages or so. By following them I will get together my formation and tactics to enable me to play the game with some sort of minor succes. That is, I do not expect to win everything in two or three seasons, as some people have been able to do and with teams not starting off in the Premier ship.

My conclusions are that to be able to be successful in FM 2008 you have to have knowledge of the AI and match engine that is not readily available from the manual. That is, that some people are able, with their pc knowledge, to access the inner workings of the game code and use that to their advantage.

I do not care at all if this is how they have done it. All I want to know is whether or not I am wasting my time completely in trying to play the game the way I do.

Just one instance, amongst a lot of others that has made me wonder about the game. Until about the middle of November or so I hadn't heard of anyone who knew that by putting passing on only 1 click, it made your team play very nice one touch passing. I can not find any reference to this in the manual.

The various ways that the AI plays is not mentioned in the manual and many other aspects of the game. Surely these are valuable things that should be in the manual to guide us into the game.

Please, will someone who knows, tell me that My conclusions are wrong and that I will find a way to make my own tactic work? I have not, do not and will not cheat. Nor do I want to be a parasite and live of the tactics of someone else. Kind regards to all.

retired_curly123

The amount of endless combinations I've tried in the last few days is just ridiculous and all of them still leave me playing completely rubbish football and getting knocked out of cups by teams two leagues below me and losing to bottom of the table teams who have 30 shots on goal against me.

What I want to know is why have my tactics been so successful in previous versions and then all of a sudden I am a relegation candidate at every club I manage in 08? Its ridiculous.

I wish there was a tactical solution to my problems but it seems I have tried every single combination and still nothing works.

SI has a lot to answer for, they've completely wrecked this game, I don't say that lightly either as I've had nothing but praise for them in the past. I used to think why do people always moan about the game being too hard but now I know how they feel.

Bring on 8.0.2 because this is just complete garbage at the moment.

retired_happydawg

I wonder whether SI could make the game more playable by re-introducing the team instructions in the tactics screens of a couple of years ago. I think they said at the time, that they withdrew them "by public demand". That players preferred to work it all out themselves. But it just needs to be a starter like the player instructions. Start off on them and then get to know the way forwards from there.

Out of all the people who use this forum, I think that there are only about a dozen or so who are completely conversant with the inner workings of tactics in FM 2008. You can see this by the way that they are able to go into much depth about the way the AI and match engine operates. None of the information that they give out is available anywhere in the manual.

With the exception of loversleaper, of late, none of them go to great lengths to comprehensively explain to the rest of us, how to use their tactics to the full. There always seems to be information either left out or not explained fully. For instance, saying put mentality on normal, is too vague. There are about 7 or 8 positions for normal. Which of these positions are the correct " normal" to be on? Or just saying " I just tweak it a bit" conveys very little.

By saying so many clicks from the extreme left, at least you know exactly where you have to be. I will refer to the manual again. "Setting up your tactics in FM 2008 can be as simple or as detailed as you wish"! From that, I assume that by using only the information provided in the manual, I can set up a formation and a tactic that will work reasonably well, according to the strength of my team. This does not appear to be true. Please, if I have it all wrong, will someone from SI or an agent thereof tell me and any others of my ilk, where we are getting it all so wrong?

retired_suziej

I'm guessing that the place that you are going wrong is that you aren't using individual instructions properly, if at all. Having a closing down of 12 for example may be fine for your MC's but it will pull your DC's out of position and open up holes in your defense.

You can definitely make a perfectly fine tactic off of just what is in the manual, but making a tactic off of what is in the manual in combination with in game testing where you make corrections based off of mistakes by your players that you witness in the game will always produce better results.

Lastly, I doubt anyone is able to figure out exactly how the match engine works by "accessing the inner workings of the game code." And when I say that, I mean I doubt that a person could actually do that. Let alone that person exists, plays FM 08 and is so frustrated that they go through the trouble to do it.

retired_hope

Hi oesus,

Of course no one has access the source code or match engine inner workings.

It's simply observation, experimentation and experience.

You mention you use your favourite formation. Have you tried finding a formation that suits your playing squad?

I would suggest that a creative freedom of 5 is too low for a Championship side, consider increasing this, at least for you most attacking players.

Also instead of setting an entire team to close down often, it might be advisable to allow your fittest player(s) do the work. (In the manual).

Tight marking for the whole team seems to work if you have a defensive set-up, but as you mentality and line are 12 you will be leaving enough room behind your defence for fast players to exploit, expecially if your defenders cannot keep up with them.

One final thing do you set your starting experience at the beginning of the game. A a championship club must of the players reputations will be a lot higher than your if you choose automatic.

Keep trying, you will get there honest.

retired_happydawg

Thanks Leroy1883. I tried to keep my post down to the essentials, trying to keep it concise. With regard to my player instructions, I have been using the default in game ones of late. The instructions in my post are the team instructions I made from reading various other posts in the forum.

That latest one is born of keeping mentality, closing down and defensive line, in line and mirroring them with passing, tempo and width. So that it the first three are on 12 then the other three should be on 8. I hope!

If you look at the Hull squad, I hope you will agree that it lends itself to a few formations. I have tried 4-4-2 diamond wide, 4-4-2 and 4-1-3-2 narrow and wide. I stopped using the first two because I read in the forums that 4-4-2 does not work in FM08 and that the AMC does not work either. I went back to 4-1-3-2 narrow because, again, after reading in the forums that going through the middle is the way forward in FM 08.

I really appreciate your point about tight marking, thanks. I always begin at the beginning of a game and use the six friendlies to sort out my formation and tactics. My formation is always one that I have bona fide players for each position, without buying anyone at the start, unless I really have to.

I was going to start again using Loversleaper's tactics but you have given me the impetus to try for the "umpteenth" time to get my own up and running. Like a lot of others, I have only found problems with FM 07 and 08.However, as you can see I am still "at it" and will continue to carry on in the hope that one day..... Kind regards.

retired_HAdvocate

oescus: You need an attacking formation, a balanced formation and a defensive formation. Both your home and away tactics fall more into the balanced category as the sliders are more close to the middle. Another thing I've noticed is that you have a few contradictory instructions (watch out for this) which can cause some tactical difficulties. Tight marking shouldn't be implemented in your attacking formation as it is a defensive asset (use it more in your defensive tactic). If I am correct according to the top post you have your home Creative Freedom on 5 and your away Creative Freedom on 15. This should be the other way around. Otherwise you are on the right track concerning which direction the sliders should move to create the attacking or defensive ideologies.

Player instructions are also something you have to think about. For example I can see that you are going to have problems if you have your full backs running forward all the time. Since you are Hull you will experience most teams attacking you (Long F-arrow formations) so they will be exploiting the space down the wings. Mixed through balls on full backs can also cause problems for your team. Your defensive midfielder should have mixed/rarely forward runs so he can keep to his duties of beeing a holding midfieder type and not running forward leaving the middle of the pitch open.

I'm sorry that some of you think that you have to tweak for hours, that will only happen if you don't know how to use the sliders and what they mean. The sliders have attacking mindsets and defensive mindsets, you just have to figure out which is which because that is what the game is about: finding out when one has to defend or attack. Simple.

Oescus, just looking at your tactics gives me the idea that at home you are 55-60% attacking and 40-45% defending. The opposite % in the defensive formation. I would have it more in the 75%-25% (home attacking), 50%-50% (normal) or the 25%-75% (defensive). It's not a 'magical' combination on the sliders but just keep them close together (as you already have been doing. Remember as a general rule don't play your attacking formation away from home or play your defensive formation at home unless it is absolutely neccessary. Keep your closing down on your center backs in the lower area so they don't leave their zone (which can be dangerous).

Formations are also defensive or offensive in thier natural form. You can actually use the formations to your advantage. Look at your opponent and be realistic on how you are going to play against them, because tweaking your formation to counter the AI can really scrape in some crutial points (and in the end those points can make all the difference), like as I mentioned with the Forward Runs on the full backs can be dangerous for you especially when playing against a 4-3-3 formation (attacking wingers). It doesn't take a genius to do these kind of tweaks, just someone how gives the game a little thought. During the game you might notice that your tactics (or team's overall strength) might not be enough to defend or attack against some formations. That's why later on in the matches you need to sometimes use your Team Mentality slider to go All-Out-Attack or Ultra-Defensive. Simple, neccessary tweaks. Give your team time to gel as the players have to get use to you and eachother. Especially new players will struggle in the beginning. Changing alot around in your team will result in a long adapting period and I think this is one of the reasons many struggle...

retired_celiabjh

Successful tactics that don't require tweaking are created by someone who knowingly or unknowingly challenges the match engine...that's what I think,but,you just can't have only A successful tactic you need to have tactics for every part of the game to win games...

purejunie

This was changed?

retired_happydawg

Thank you gentlemen, for your invaluable assistance, it is really appreciated.

Hello Loversleaper. I have just begun a new game. I am trying to use a 4-4-2 wide diamond system. I have short farrows on the wide midfielders. I have started off using the in game default "player instructions" from the drop down menu in the tactics screen. These, I will try to improve upon as I go along.

My team instructions will remain along the lines of previously posted but with the changes that you and Leroy1883 have suggested. I want to use only the Hull City starting squad until the January transfer window, only buying if I really need to. The thinking behind this is, that by then I should know precisely where I need to improve my squad and get full benefit from the very good transfer funds available to me.

Well. Tally-Ho!! Thank you chaps, your assistance is muchly appreciated. If anyone is interested, I shall post my formation and tactics again after about fifteen league games.