Riza

Oh boy, if it was only that simple.

Ackter, just because you have a computer does not mean you have the internet.

It's easier to buy the game then go through the trouble of getting the demo for some. I personally don't care if people have complaints about it, in fact I encourage people to spot the problems, ofcourse not to an extent that we have seen recently in some postings.

Ackter

There's a difference between spotting problems and acting like they do on here.

Sure, it's not that easy for some people to get a demo, but if spending this amount of money is a big deal then you going a little out of your way is worth the trouble.

It just makes sense.

Riza

Your first comment, I agree and I'm sure everyone does.

And ofcourse it's not pleasant to see a bunch of new postings about people complaining but the fact is, no one is forcing anyone to reply to those sorts of threads.

I suggest to people if they see a thread that they do not like, for example one of those threads where people just rant about how bad the game is, then simply ignore it and do not post. You're just aiding the issue we're trying to resolve.

We all want the forum to be a cleaner and better place, but we can't simply reply saying "well buddy you should of got the demo first" or "too bad so sad, return it". Simply do not reply and move on.

Some are just too quick to jump the gun and it just ends up bringing thickheads from all over the place and turns out into a brawl of postings. I'm sure you're aware of the few threads where SI members and Sega members got involved and it did get a bit ugly.

All I'm saying is, just ignore it and move on. We can't keep these "it's you fault for buying the game" responses.

Sussex Hammer

The point is though that if SI know the Demo is riddled with bugs then they should not release the real thing until is it all sorted.

It's the same every year and yet SI do not learn from it.

Sooner or later the public will look at the demo, realise that it isn't very good and keep their money in their pocket.

Thus meaning sales will drop and thats less in the coffers for SI.

Ackter

To turn that back on you for a moment - if it's the same every year then why don't you learn from it?

SI do what they can with what they have. If you don't think it's enough then no-one is forcing you to buy the game.

Konk

Why should we have to learn from it? We are the ones forking out the money to buy this game. I understand that games have bugs but if they bring out a buggy game every year, dont you think SI should look at what they are doing and look for ways to improve it?

I mean if you have a buggy game every year, i would think to myself ok, this is happening regularly so something should be done. After all it is SI that are getting our money from it all so i think if anyone should learn from it..its SI.

The way i see it, SI feel obliged to release a version every year because of the high demand for it. So therefore i presume some procedures are rushed and not looked into properly and also they need finances coming in to keep ther business running.

Im not having a go at SI, im just saying that something has to be done some how so that people paying money for the game shouldn't have to come on here and make 500 threads about the same thing.

Ackter

If what they bring out every year is unacceptable to you then why do you keep on buying it?

SI release a version every year because it's the only way to stay in the business these days. The competition, while currently behind them, will get a much larger share of the public's cash is SI didn't release a yearly game.

Football itself is also a yearly game, so it makes sense to release FM to match (like most other sports games).

astralusion

I would like to point out that a lot of the "unplayable" bugs are not things that would be picked up on if you played the demo.

for instance the stadium expansion bug
the scottish second year fixtures bug
long term expectations bug
(mad chairman if you consider that a bug)
i'm sure people could list others that fall outside of a six month span.

Konk

If everyone would take that approach and not purchased the game..SI wouldnt be the competition leaders.

It's got to be a two way street. They just cant keep releasing games to stay ahead of the pack. If you release games that are minimal in bugs, your reputation builds up and people wont hestitate.

If they keep this up, then people are going to think twice before purchasing and say, "I'll wait and see what others say about it".

I purchase the game because i know what SI is capable of with FM, and ive enjoyed the series so that is why, but when new people come into the world of FM, it's not going to be easy to keep a hold of them.

WoIfsong

It's interesting to see the same old ppl defending SI in every thread using the same old arguments, which, unfortunately, all fail...

1 - 'There's a demo, you had the chance to try it, if you didn't like it, why did you buy it?'

Counter argument 1: The demo is only for 6 months, bugs such as board confidence (which is seriously game breaking) can not be spotted in the demo.

Counter argument 2, I quote Greg:

"The fact that you keep bringing this up proves how serious the problems are with FM08. As you keep repeating this mantra over and over again, you're doing so in response to countless postings from outraged customers. Your continual postings in this context reinforce the fact that there were massive flaws in the game, otherwise there would be no need for your attempts to put the blame on customers. Interestingly, your postings imply that if more users had tried the demo, they would have found the flaws and elected not to purchase the product."

Counter argument 3: Many ppl do not play demos b4 they buy full release games. Is it their problem? Are they obliged to play demos? No. SI is obliged to ensure the quality of their product and ensure customer satisfaction.

Counter argument 4: A vast majority of ppl who do not check forums before release are not aware of the demo. There's a large % of old fm fans on this forum but this is not the case if we take into account the ppl who are not on these forums. Imagine the ppl who only just became aware of fm08 and bought fm08 after seeing their advertising campaign, how could you throw this poor 'demo argument' at them?

2. 'I admit fm08 is bad, but it's always been like this! SI has never released a bug free fm on initial release in the past! Accept the fact or stfu!"

Needless to say, this terminology is seriously flawed.

If the above statement is true, then SI needs to seriously consider sacking their managers (they did get a new QA manager this year, but again we can only infer inability or complacency on him).

If SI releases a buggy game in 06, ppl complain and then they release patches to fix it, SI needs to learn from that experience, not the customers. SI needs to improve, or at least show initiative to improve. Customers can forgive you once or twice, but not always, not the third time. It is again the obligation of SI to ensure that their game contains minimum bugs or at least show that they have done everything possible to eliminate the bugs. Unfortunately they have not shown that in fm08, obvious bugs which could be spotted by a gamer in the 1st hour of play were left in the game (e.g. disallowed goals, closedown, no playing advantage etc etc)

3. "I admit this game is flawed, buggy and piece of ****, but it is still the best football management game!"

Sales of FIFAM already exceed fm in Germany, Spain etc. This statement will be proved wrong in the foreseeable future if SI continues this attitude towards their game.