retired_sugarbear_sb

To start out this post, I want to submit my thanks to a couple people. The first of which is Cleon, for his countless comments on tactics and his experience. Thank you! The second is to WWWFAN, for his work on tactics and theroms for FM, these works by far have been my launching board from which my tactics have been developed. Thank you!

Disclamer:

I am not a tactics guru, but I love the Beautiful Game. No game has ever made me jump up in my chair, shout out loud and run around the house jumping for joy because I pulled out a last second goal to take the league and gain promotion... (yes I'm a nut) i digress. What i'm getting at though... is that this is what works for me. It may not be what works for you, but like Cleons Sheffield United Project it just might give a bit of insight on what I'm finding to be working for me.

Objective:

It depends on whose camp you are in. Some say that you can set up tactics vary them for home/away and you will get fantastic results. Others believe there is a "Magical Tactic" that will fill your side with "Ronaldinho" type players (J/K but some search for one as if its true). Another camp is under the assumption that tacts need to be tweaked every match to compensate for the competition tactics.

Will any of the above beliefs guarantee wins? maybe, probably not. Thats why this game is so great! I will not upload my tactics for DL. Like Cleon, I believe that the journey is much better than the end result. Finding what works for you is immensly rewarding! Not to mention, it causes you to think and decide for yourself how you like to see your side perform.

I will post results and screen shots in the furure, however I wanted to get the ball rolling and I do not need to prove anything... I'm just giving my opinion. If someone wants to post their results, and/or screenshots, please feel free. I just want to continue and piggy-back on Cleon, WWWFan and many other's findings with my own summary of ideas. Now, with that, lets begin!

History

I'm fairly new at FM, in fact I've only been playing for 6+ months. When I began my journey to enjoy this game, I had no idea what i was doing, so I started playing with Millwall. I dove head first into setting up training schedules and tactics. I began by using the ROT theory. This worked fairly well at the beginning of the first season, but towards the late/end of the season my performance dropped off. However, I did move up to the champ league and got my backside handed to me. Mainly because I realized I worked my players to the bone and I had absolutely NO depth. But I noticed something in my tactics... before I was dominating people based on the fact that I had ammassed a team that was superior to those in league 1. (Doudin and Williams specifically) This resulted in a frustrated feeling because I felt that at least I should be winning something on a consistant basis. I went back to the drawing board and noticed that my ROT tactics had me only playing (individual mentality wise) semi attacking football. Let me note this. Its a heated topic that individual mentality overrides team mentality. I completely and wholeheartedly disagree! as stated by cleon many times, Individual Mentality is for positioning on the field, Team mentality is for style of play. For example.... if you have players with lower individual mentality (all under 10) and a team mentality of atacking (15+) its like asking your players to play in their own end and send shots from way outside the box. vise versa.

So I started reading this forum, and analyzing exactly how each setting effected my team. The saying is true. Talent can make up for lack of tactics, however great tactics (team work/planning) will enable a less talented team to compete even out perform talent. This is the beauty of FM!

Now where do we go from here....

Here is what i've found works for me.

(I run with the 442 diamond)

Mentality:

I like WWWfan's information on the Rule of One/Rule of Two for individual mentality, This made sense to me. you do no want your positions so spread out that they cannot pass between eachother, however if you DO place mentality further than 1-2 clicks away from the next position up the pitch, you will run the risk of unnecessary passes that do not move the ball up the pitch, because (forgive the expression) the players are out of position. I do not follow the RoO or the RoT to the letter because I feel that i get better support by changing my FB:

when I had IM (Individual Mentality) set at 6 for my DC's a IM of 8-9 for my DR/DL and a IM of 10 for my DMC, I noticed that my DC's would pass between themselves too much, thus no production up front, rarely would they work as part of the team. Here you say, well compensate for this by changing to a more direct style of passing for the DC's then.... okay sure, but do you really want your DC's dictating the tempo of your side? some DC's are brilliant, but rarely are they creative. I want my DMC to distribute the attack, my AMC to dictate the tempo and beat his man, the wings to support the side/dictate the tempo if I'm playing wide and for the strikers to finish off the attack

Catch my drift here? The ROO or ROT makes sense here... it keeps everyone uniform and playing as a team. remove the names of the theory's and I'm sure even Cleon would agree you want your players IM to be 1-2 clicks sometimes 3 clicks in extreem situations (counter attack long ball tactics) so that your players move and help each other out while moving the ball down the pitch.

I have 2 tactics set up for my now Southampton team.
(IM only) more to come later as I do not have the time now to finish this giant work in progress

Attacking:

G: 10
DC: 11
FB: 12
DMC: 13
ML/MR: 14
AMC: 15
ST: 17

Defending:

G: 03
DC: 04
FB: 05
DMC: 06
ML/MR: 07
AMC: 08
ST: 10


I use these mentality settings based on the scouting reports, what are the opposition going to do against me. As you will see in my next couple of posts... these are my building blocks, things will get tweaked and changed a bit depending on the performance of my team durring the match. If you notice (when attacking) that your team is all foreplay and no finish, perhapse you are not attacking hard enough and you need to move each position up a notch to bring more people on the attack. If your attack is good (Shots on Target) and shots are there, but you notice that they are beeting you deep and getting behind you... take it one notch down... These are not RULES and there are many other tweeks that can help in these situations, but you will see a huge difference when your guys play as a team! and keeping the IM of each player relatively together (examples above) will allow you to play like a team, helping eachother out, and creatively coming up with some spectacular plays.

I will finish my thoughts on IM and move into Team Mentality and passing next...

Any questions, please ask, I will try to help out as much as I can...

Cheers!

Ashyr

(sorry for any grammer errors or spelling errors... I did not have the chance to review before I hit post! =D )

retired_vsoukup

i do more or less the same thing with my individual mentalities. except i keep a distance of one click between players in the same positions eg dc's. everything looks more fluid and the team works well together. i also never let any player be more than 3 clicks away from another. you are right about the low mentality defenders, they just play keep ball with each other so its important you start at around 10 for them and push up slightly if you want to play short game. you will notice any way that if your defenders are on a low mentality and normal defensive line they are rightly sitting back.

retired_sunny_smart

this sounds interesting, been struggling with nottm forest lately might give this a go when i get a bit more info

retired_sugarbear_sb

Now its time for my thoughts on Team Mentality (TM).

In my previous post you can see how important it is for it is for your squad to play as a team. we can see that by monitoring the way your side plays they need to maintain some sense of uniform (mentality/positioning) if you will to enable them to develop their play. With this in mind I want to again stress that the above mentalities are my starting points. It gives my squad a starting point. Here is where I believe Cleon's ideas come into play.

I DO ADJUST the IM sliders during the game, you need to get the feel for how the opposition is defending and playing against you... If you need more attacking, kick each one up a notch, vice versa... I said this before, and I just wanted to stress this so that you can see my thought process.

I believe that the TM is there to change the style of TEAM PLAY. IM is for positioning, TM is for Team Play/mentality. If your men are deep in their own pitch, and your playing a team that is taking it to you, you slide the TM to defensive. If the team your playing against you is filling the box with defenders, you move it to attacking.

Now the question is, how much defending or attacking is needed... this following is where I've noticed my best results. I place my TM slider to the same number of clicks (I know that the clicks are different so I just add 1 to the Team clicks) as the PLAYER'S IM that you want to dictate the flow of the game.

For example, if I'm playing at home and the opposition is playing a defensive style, i will automatically choose my IM Attacking tactics. Now ask yourself this? who on my team do I want to dictate the the flow or be the attacking general if you will? For me in my formation I like my AMC to dictate that for my team Therefor my AMC (IM) is set to 15, my TM is set at 16 clicks. I have found this to be the best balance. If i set TM too high (18 clicks, Strikers IM +1) you will see your team a bit overbalanced and your things can get crazy very fast.

At this point I want to emphasize that I rarely will change the TM during the game, unless I'm noticing a HUGE gap in performance... My thought process is as follows: my boys are moving in on the pitch, they already know they are to attack (TM), lets first deal with their position (IM) to bring them closer for the attack... now, how does the positioning look? not enough support from the middle and back? bump it up again.... Still not generating the type of attack I like, and defense is still solid? okay now its time to increase the TM up one click.

This seems tedious, but i assure you, you will see the effects on these little little changes. If you don't feel like micromanaging... then ignore me here, but i've found with a bit of practice that this can be super fast and not even an issue... a quick 5 seconds can mean the difference here! try it and you will see what I mean. you will be suprised at the results.

Important note:
make sure to pay attention to your defense... if they are making runs, getting wide behind your FB and your team is playing panic defense, but your attack is good! be sure to adjust accordingly... nudge the IM of your boys down one notch. If they are beating you wide and getting behind your FBs, and your dropped the IM a couple times.... add some barrows (backwards arrows) to your FBs and watch them beg for mercy. =) the key to this tactic is SOLID defense and dictating a team oriented offense.

Now that we have discussed the IM (positioning) and the TM (type of play) according to your own preferences, its time to set the passing...

Individual Passing

Again I take this out of Cleon's book of tactics, and will add my own touch with a bit of RoT/RoO style to it. Cleon has absolutely hit the nail on the head in that you need to contradict the opposition here. If they are playing short passes, you want to be direct. If they are playing direct, you want to be short and control the possession.

I want to make a note here that tempo, width and passing are all inter-related. Simply watch a match and you will see that shorter passing teams will tend to be slower in tempo (moving the ball back and forth creating mis matches) to develop your attack etc... I just want to begin to get you to think in logically about how this tactic as a whole is established... I'll go into more detail later about where my settings for tempo and width, next post.

now my individual settings for Attacking are set as follows:

Passing settings:
Generally, your attacking because the other team is playing defensive/neutral approach. You are usually at home and will attempt to keep possession and so forth. Again these are simply starting points. I will change passing more often than I will change my mentality, for the simple reason that you will see more results. I've noticed that if you're playing a possession style passing setting, you will either find that the opposing team is closing down hard and you're boys are having trouble getting the ball through or around the opposition's defense, thus you need to get them to respect your ability to adapt and move the ball more directly. I tend to increase and decrease the IP (individual passing) in two click intervals. the same goes for the defensive settings which are more direct, due to the counter attack that you will most likely be doing.

[B}Atacking settings[/B]

G: 15 <-------------- I always have the keeper playing long kicks into my Target man or strikers
DC: 6 <-------------- I do not want my DC to be passing any further than the wings or DM
FB: 9 <-------------- This gives them a more direct approach down the wings or to the AMC and at times the Target Man
DM: 8 <-------------- playing again to the wings or the AMC, keeping him from generating too many passes to the Strikers
MR/ML: 9 <-------------- again more direct, due to the nature of their position, needing direct passes into the box for attack
AMC: 6 <-------------- Your Field general. Ultimately you are getting the ball into this guys hands to dictate the attack.
FC: 5 <-------------- They will be finishing off your plays, if they need to pass it is usually short.

Defensive settings
These mirror the above... just more direct for the counter and movement of the ball forward through/over/around the attacking opponent

G: 15
DC: 8 <-------------- again getting it only to the DM
FB: 14 <-------------- Much more direct to get the ball forward
DM: 12
MR/ML: 14 <-------------- again for the movement of the ball to your attackers
AMC: 14 <-------------- the AMC will often pitch it wide to the wings... or hit one deep to the Strikers
ST: 10 <-------------- with the high tempo, long passes and higher creative freedom (more on that later) your ST will be out of position a lot and need
the extra direct/length to their passes to get it into the box for the AMC and other striker for the attack.

This concludes our individual passing settings for tonight. I will post Team settings tomorrow, and get a little more in depth into how Tempo, Width and passing are interrelated.


Again, any questions are welcome and encouraged.

Cheers!

Ashyr

retired_slayerbing

are you getting consistant results with this?

retired_sugarbear_sb

absolutely! lemme see here... southampton 1st season I am 18 wins 3 draws and 3 losses

one of those losses came from the league cup where I played all my reserves. I am going after promotion this year... not even trying the cup...

I'll post shots tomorrow night... but I'm only half done here... there is plenty more on the way. I just felt that I would share my findings after things started to make sense to me. and to state my opinion on how the sliders interact with one another. Much like Cleon's Shef Utd thread, but with lots of logical thought talked out in the thread.

ALSO

I want to apologize to wwfan

I spelled his name wrong above and I can't edit my posts to change it. my apologies kind sir.

more tomorrow!

cheers

Ashyr

retired_iaispuro

Excellent! I was thinking of beginning a thread where I ask for help building a diamond formation as this is my preferred tactic. However I am going to follow this thread and try and understand how to set up the tactic/s in stead.

Do you feel a home and away tactic is enough? Are you thinking of tweaking the tactic depending on the scouts findings? i.e. How will we play against a defensive Counter Attacking team?

Let's build a tactic.

retired_elpata

Excellent thread, I enjoyed reading it and will be following it properly when I get the time. I will also add it to the links thread uptop when I eventually get time

retired_sugarbear_sb

I agree "Lets build a tactic!"

In response to your questions... if you look above I don't have Home/Away tactics... I have Attacking/Defending mentality tactics. BIG difference.

I have noticed that as the season progresses and you will switch between the tactic depending on the oppositions tactics and I follow this guidline:

If I'm Home team and the scouting report says:

they play defensive: I choose my Attacking mentality settings
they play attacking: I choose my Defensive mentality settings
if they don't specify: I choose my Attacking mentality because I'm at home and can afford to see how they react

If I'm the away team and the scouting report says:

They play defensive: I choose my Attacking mentality settings and adjust accordingly as stated in above threads
They play attacking: I choose my Defensive mentality settings
if they don't specify: I choose my Defensive mentality settings due to the fact that the opposition will be more attacking at home.

I hope this isn't too confusing... and this is how I adjust my tactics. Mentality based vs opponents mentality.

In response to your second question, we will be adjusting some based on the scouting reports. Just like Cleon's example. I will be explaining how those adjustments will be made within each post, depending on the style of the opponent. as you can see in the above posts about mentality and passing, slight changes are made depending on your teams performance.

To answer your thrid quesiton about if they are counter attacking how do we play them. Let me take an example from a recent game of mine:

My Saints were home against Birmingham:

Scouting report said that they would play a high tempo, getting the ball wide, with direct passing, game and to watch out for Bendter
it did NOT say if they were attacking or defending style...

I was home so I chose my attacking style.
As displayed above it has my team attacking, and has a nice short passing game to retain posession. see the logic here? I started the game... and within the first 10 minutes... you could see by the stats that I had good shots and they were generally on target... This was also evidident watching my squad... I was completing a high percentage of my passes and retaining posession.... Attacking wise, things were looking good. On the defensive side of the ball something was troubling. I would get it deep in their end, and at times they would get posession, and lob one over top to Bendtner streaking down the edge, who then would occationally beat his man and fire a shot on goal/or cross to the streaking Fast striker for a shot... you could see that they were beating my wings and Defense on the counter attack and I was in "Panic" defense trying to keep the ball out of the net.

What I did from here is this. Attacking good, need some more defense... put my guys deeper back into the pitch (one click to the left on IM for each player)... Attacking stayed intact and now my DC were getting back to defend, but my FB were still getting beat wide.... Dropped Barrows on them... and COMPLETELY shut them down... every time they lobbed it back... my FB were there to pick it up... distribute to the wings and DM and start the attack again.

Final result. Saints win at home 2-0: =D

The results aren't always this great... but this is how i defend the counter attack... and my logic/thinking behind it. I hope this helps!

Cheers!

Ashyr

retired_sugarbear_sb

Wow... thanks Cleon! =D


Cheers Mate! I hope things settle down for you soon!

Ashyr