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Old 01-08-2007, 10:55 AM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #1
Joe Blow
 
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Default My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away.

This post will present the tactic i have worked on the last weeks. A while ago i had some different formations that worked ok but i wasnt over the moon by them. I had a 4-1-3-2 formation that i used at home and sometimes away against week teams and a 4-4-2 formation that i used away against strong teams. The problem isnt that the formation was bad but most of the players i had in my 4-1-3-2 formation didnt fit into my 4-4-2 formation. Basicaly it was only the Goalkeeper, back four and defensive midfielder that could play in both formations.

Now i wanted to create a formation that i could use both home, away and against big teams with just some minor tweeking to the tactics. First i thought of creating a very defensive 4-5-1 formation but that plan ended fast since that wasnt what i was looking for. I wanted a formation that i could use to play brilliant fast attacking football with and destroy my opponents at home and then go away and play a solid game and grab a 1-0 or 2-0 victory with. Second thought was to make a 3-5-2 formation with very offensive wingbacks and a midfield playmaker. But that didnt feel like my style to play, im a big fan of attacking wingers like Ronaldo, Robben, Vicente, Joaquin, Messi etc.

That was when i came to think about the 4-3-3 formation, i had that in mind earlier also but i had tried it out, and it worked great at home but away it was a litle week against good teams. Well i had made up my mind, i was going to make a 4-3-3 formation that i could use both home and away and i shouldn’t need to change any position it should look the same at papper both home and away but the tactics of the home and away version could ofc be different.

Here i vill give a presentation of the 4-3-3 system, background about the formation, and the way i like to play with a 4-3-3 formation (there are many ways to paly a 4-3-3 formation). Last i will give my implementation of it into FM2007. So if you don’t want to read alot of text, go directly to the end of this post

1. Reason for choosing a 4-3-3 formation

First of all im a big fan of the 4-3-3 formation, this was my favourite formation when i played football myself. Everytime the manager announced that we where going to use the 4-3-3 formation i had a big smile on my face. Today i just love watching teams that uses this formation and do it the right way. Everyone loves watching wingers that can run at their opponent and dribble past them and deliver precise crosses to the striker or turn into the pitch and go for goal themself (Ronaldo).

Second reason is that this is a great tactic if used the right way. It gives alot of flexability both for attack and defence. You can easy change from a attacking style to a more defensive style during the game depending on how the game looks like.



2. About the 4-3-3 formation

Everyone that don’t have a good understanding of football and tactics belive that this is an very attacking formation (well it can be that also, more about that later). But in my opinion it is a very solid formation that has the advantage to switch from defence to attack fast and hurt the opponent while they are unorganized. Main reason why alot of lower leauge teams don’t uses this formation is that it requiers that the team have the right players and individual skill to perform it efficient. If you don’t have the requierd players, it its easier to use a standard 4-4-2 formation since this don’t requier the same individual skill and intelligence of the players.

The 4-3-3 fomation can be used in many different shapes, from very attacking with alot of possession and slower tempo, to a more defensive direct counter-attack style of play. This is what makes the 4-3-3 formation so great.



3. My view of the 4-3-3 formation

I like to use the more defensive aproach of the 4-3-3. When the team don’t have the ball they defend like a unit and as soon the ball is recovered they switch fast to attack using the flanks and the individual skill of the wingers to set up the striker. But if the opposition invites us to their half and to have possession of the ball then we should hold the ball, slow down the tempo a bit, play the ball around and look for chances.



4. My implementaions of the 4-3-3 formation.

I wanted to have two different tactic implementations of the 4-3-3 formation to use. One that is a more attacking tactic that let my team have possession and build up the attack more slowly. The second is a more defensive tactic then the first that uses a high-tempo, direct, counter-attack style of play.

The first tactic is the one im going to use when playing at home or when going away to play a very weak team. The second tactic is the one im going to use when going away to play a team that is just a little bit weaker then my team, a team of the same strength or a big team. I will also use the away approach at home if it is a big team that visiting and i belive that i can’t keep possession of the ball and outplay them.

Since the two different tactics differs much in terms of attack and defence i will first go through how I would like the team to behave in attack and defence.



5. 4-3-3 Formation (Home tactic)

At home, my side should dominate the visiting teams. The team should hold on to the ball, keep possession and search for a opening in the away teams defence. When playing this slow tempo football just outside the area against a weaker team that line up at the edge of the area the goal scoring oppertunities come in three different ways. Either the center midfielder plays a short ball to the striker in the box that takes the shot, or the midfielders goes for a shot from outside the area, or the midfielders recieve the ball from one of the wingers then switch the ball to the other flank so that winger can deliver a cross into the box for the striker.

The picture below is the player positions i came up with for the formation. I have played with the 4-3-3 many times before, but i always used a flat midfield and a flat attacking line with FL, FC FR. This worked just fine for the home games where i could put on some nice displays and play a very good attacking fotball. But that formation wasnt the best to use away against very strong teams. When playing against a strong side it is importent that the wingers do their job correctly, and the midfield must vin alot of balls to provide the wingers with balls to run on. Reason why i choose the setup below is like i said, i dont want to change the formation from home to away, i just want to change the tactics a bit and still be able to use the same staring XI if i wanted to. If i was going to do an 4-3-3 formation that would only concentrate on playing at home i think i would have used a flat midfield and flat attacking line. But as i said i wanted it to look the same both home and away.







Below i present how i would like my team to play in terms of defence when we play at home.


Defenders

My team should play with a flat back four. The fullbacks main responsibility is to stay back to help the central defenders with counter attacks. All defenders in the defensive line should use zonal marking and don’t close down to hard on the opposition since i don’t want them to get caught out of position in case of an counter attack. The central defenders are very defensive, but i want one of them to play a little bit higher up the pitch than the other. The one playing a little bit higher up also closes down little harder then the other one. One could say that the other defender that play a bit back works as a sweeper (but he isnt). The defensive line should push up to be able to win the ball high up in the pitch an maintain pressure and continue the attack from there..


Defensive Midfielder

The defensive midfielder should play just infront of the defensive line. If the team should loose the ball while going forward or when the midfielders, wingers and striker is far up the pitch he is the guy that should break down the opposition attack and get the ball back to the midfielders so we can start attacking again.


Central Midfielders

These players is the engine of the team and very important in the defence, if we loose the ball high up the pitch when attacking they should get back to position fast as possible to break down the opposition attack. When the team get under heavy preassure, these two (along with the defensive midfielder) is the players that should win the battle of the midfield for us and get the ball from the oppsition midfielders so we either can launch a quick attack or slow the play down and start building up our attack slowly again.

Wingers

When playing defence i want my wingers to put alot of pressure on the opposition fullbacks so they dont get time to start passing the ball around and build up the attack. The wingers should prevent the fullbacks from reaching the midfielders with a short pass and start the attack. The fullbacks should be forced to play a long ball up front, or a short ball to the centerback. If the fullback play a short ball to the centerback the striker will be there to put pressure on him. (Se below)

Striker

The strikers role in the defence is much like the wingers except he put pressure on the centerbacks not the fullbacks. He should put pressure on the center backs so they don’t get time to play a short pass to the midfielders and start the attack. He should instead force the centerbacks to play a long ball upfront since then there is much more likely that we win the ball back and can go to attack again.



Below i present how the differnt units should behave when the team attacks at home.


Defenders

I dont want the defenders in my team to contribute to much in the attack. Their main responsibility is to defend, they should concentrate on winning the ball, distribute it to the ones responsible to launch the attack and then stay back. The fullbacks shouldnt be encuraged to go forward to much to help the attack unless some special occacion arises. The team already have five players attacking (six if the defensive midfielder joins the attack). Depending on how the game looks like it can be ok for the fullback to go forward, but i dont want him to run with the ball trying som fancy stuff. If he looses the ball in such position it would most likely lead to a goal oppurtunity to the opposition.

Defensive Midfielder

His role is to collect the ball from the defenders and start the attack, either he should pass the ball short to the central midfielders or try to switch the ball out to a winger if he have the possibility to do that. The defensive midfielder can join the attack if a good opurtunity arises, but he have to be careful not to get caught out of position or loose the ball in i dangerous spot, since that will leave the opposition with only the defensive line to beat.

Central Midfielders

As i said these players are the engine of the team. Beside helping alot in the defence these players should also be responsible for launching most of the attacks. They will try to get the ball from the fullback, centerback or defensive midfielder and from there start the attack. The midfield pair will be set up so that one is more offensive then the other. The offensive one will take alot off runs into the box and try to connect at crosses. It’s very important that one of the midfielders do this, since my team only play with one striker in the box he will need support in there. The central midfielders will also need to support the wingers. If a winger get stuck and can’t beat his man or cross into the box, one midfielder must give him a short option and then look to switch the ball over to the other flank. Beside being the creative force in the attack and distributing passes, the central midfielders should also go for goal from outside the area. If we play against a side that line up all players inside and on the edge of the area to defend from crosses and to cut off the striker it’s very important that the midfielders go for goal to let them know that it will only punish them by lining up at the edge of the area.

Wingers

The wingers is the players that should give the opposition defence a hard time with crosses and running with and without the ball. Main responibility for the wingers is to beat the defender get down deep and cross the ball into the area for the striker. The wingers should also do alot of runing into the box. If the ball is on the other flank and that winger is going to cross. The oposite winger should run to the near post (far post for the winger that delivers the cross ball) and try to connect onto the ball if it goes over the striker.

Striker

Is the one that should bang in the goals. The striker should always be inside the box trying to connect to crosses from wingers, and pick up balls that is played into the area by the midfielders.

6. 4-3-3 Formation (Away tactic)

The away tactic is a bit different from the home tactic. When im playing away i want my team to defend as a unit and play a direct counter attack style if play. We should let the opposition get into our half and when we conquer the ball, the team switch fast from defence to attack using the flanks. The aim of the away tactic is to be as solid as possible and try to have eight players behind the ball (all except the striker). As soon as my team get hold of the ball the wingers and the striker go forward and the center midfielders, defensive midfielder or fullbacks try to reach them with direct passes. The goal scoring chanses are mostly created from through balls to the strikers or wingers that then move in onto goal or from a winger that get down deep and cross into the box for the striker.

Here is the player positions for the away tactic.

<A HREF="http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4321awaydt3.jpg" TARGET=_blank>[IMG]http://img

[URL=http://imageshack.us] </A>



Below i will present how every unit plays in terms of defence. It described it much in detail in the 4-3-3 Formation (Home tactic) so here i vill only present the biggest differences between the home and away tactic.

Defenders

Still using a flat back four. Difference here is that the fullbacks is alowed to close down a bit harder. Reason for this is that the rest of the team is also defensive now so should a full back get caught out of position there should be a defensive midfielder or a center midfielder to cover up for him. Having the fullback’s closing down is also a good way to start a counter attack, if he gets the ball from the opposition winger he can hit it directly up to the winger on the same flank to start a counter attack. Another difference here is that the defensive line don’t push up. Reason for this is that I want to invite the opposition to my half so there is more space to counter attack on when I win the ball.

Defensive Midfielder

About the same role as in the home tactic, sits infront of the defensive line to break down attacks. If the oposition is playing with a attacking midfielder it is up to my defensive midfielder to neuralize him.

Central Midfielders

Almost the same as in the home tactic, difference here is that they should always try to be behind the ball. Other differences is that they are a litte more defensive minded and closing down harder.

Wingers

Closing down the fullbacks of the opposition hard. Biggest difference is that the wingers now are more defensive minded and should track back to close the flanks for the opposition.

Striker

Same as in home tactic. Closing down the centerbacks to stress them to mistakes and try to delay their attack for a while until our team have organized the defence.


Attack

How i want the attack to be played when playing away.

Defenders

Same here as in the home tactic, fullbacks isn’t encuraged to get up and join the attack. Difference is that the defenders shouldnt only play short balls to the defensive midfielder and center midfielders to start the attack. The defenders should try to reach the wingers with a direct pass sometime and not only play short passes to the defensive midfielder and central midfielder to start the attack.

Defensive Midfielder

The defensive midfielder don’t get up to support the attack as much as he does in the home tactic. He should also try to reach the wingers and the striker with direct through balls to start a counter attack.

Central Midfielders

In the home tactic I used a pair of one very offensive midfielder and one offensive. Here i will use a pair of one defensive and one normal midfielder. No midfielder take a run into the box as in the home tactic. Reason for this is two, first we wont be crossing as much using this tactic so it will be a wase, and secondi dont want to risk my central midfielder getting caught out of position. The central midfielders should try to send through balls to the wingers and the strikers. Also if they are high up the pitch they should be encuraged to go for a long shots.


Wingers

Not nearly as offensive as in the home tactic, but they should still make forward runs and try to get behind their defender and deliver a cross into the box.

Striker

Almost the same as in the home tactic, but here the forward should get the ball played infront of him so he can run onto the ball. In the home tactic the ball is played to the feet of the forward. Should take runs into the box and try to connect to the crosses from the wingers.


7. Team Instructions

Based on these guidlines on how i would like my two systems to work i came up with the following instructions for each tactic.


Below are the team instruction i have set for the two tactics, some values varies since i set them different depending on the opposition i encounter. For example if i think i can outplay my opponent and hold on to the ball, a choose a slower and shorter type of play. If im playing a very big team away i choose a more defensive approach to the away tactic. And if the opposition have very fast defenders i dont push my defensive line up as much so i dont risk get caught out of position.

Team instructions (Home Tactic)

Mentality: Attacking (13-16)
Creative freedom: Much (13-16)
Passing style: Short (3-6)
Tempo: Slow: (3-6)
Width: Mixed: Wide (11-14)
Closing down: Mixed (10)
Time wasting: Rarely (5)
Defensive line: Push-up (12-15)

Target man supply: To Feet
Focus passing: Mixed
Tight marking: NO
Use playmaker: ON
Use targetman: OFF
Play offside: OFF
Counter attack: OFF


Team instructions (Away Tactic)

Mentality: Defensive (5-9)
Creative freedom: Little (5-9)
Passing style: Direct (13-16)
Tempo: High: (12-15)
Width: Narrow: (6-9)
Closing down: Mixed (10)
Time wasting: Rarely (8)
Defensive line: Deep (6-9)

Target man supply: Run onto ball
Focus passing: Down both flanks
Tight marking: NO
Use playmaker: OFF
Use targetman: OFF
Play offside: OFF
Counter attack: ON


Comments on the instructions

Home tactic

I belive that one can use play offside also, since the defensive line push up this might work fine to prevent some of oppositions counter attack. Personaly i don’t do it.

If one like you can set “use target man” and aim the crosses onto the striker. Personaly i havent done this because i have seen that my defenders and defensive midfielder love to send long balls up on him, often resulting in that i loose possession. And that is not what i want i want the defenders to send the ball to the central midfielders to let them start the attack.

For playmaker one should choose either the defensive midfielder or the more defensive one of the center midfielders. Setting the offensive center midfielder as playmaker wasnt effective for me, he will be to high up in the pitch since he makes runs into the area. Its much better to have one of the more defensive players to be the playmaker and dictate the tempo and switch the ball to the flanks.

Away tactic

I have tried to use a playmaker in the away formation, but i found that his only slowed the counter attack up since players is looking to pass the ball to the playmaker, and if that takes to long the fine counter attack possibility could be gone. I find it more efficient to give the players that most often launch the counter attack (defensive midfilder and center midfielder) the instructions so any of them can act at sa playmaker without needing to designate one to be a playmaker.

8. Player instructions

Home tactic

Goalkeeper

Having him to act as a sweeper since i push up the defensive line, he should get of the line to pick up balls that goes over my defensive line.

Mentality: Normal (6)
Creative freedom: Little (0) “Dont want to make a bartez =)”
Passing style: Mixed (6)
Closing down: Mixed (6)
All the rest set “rare”
Distribute to: Defensive midfielder

Full backs

Mentality: Normal (8-10) can go higer if you want to attack more with them
Creative freedom: Mixed (8)
Passing style: Short (5)
Closing down: Mixed (8-10)
Forward runs: Mixed – set to often if tou want them to join the attack more often
Run with ball: Rare
Long shots: Rare
Through balls: Rara
Cross Ball: Often

Center backs

Here ar the instructions for the center backs, one of them have a bit higher mentality and closing down, to let him play a bit higher up the pitch then the other one.

Mentality: Defensive (4-5) other CD (7-8)
Creative freedom: Little (3) other CD (5)
Passing style: Short (5) other CD (7-8)
Closing down: Rarely (5) other CD (7-8)
All the rest set to rare.

Defensive midfielder

Mentality: Normal (8-10)
Creative freedom: Mixed (8)
Passing style: Mixed (9)
Closing down: Often (15)
Forward runs: Mixed
Run with ball: Rare
Long shots: Mixed (often if good at long shots)
Through balls: Mixed
Cross Ball: Rare

Central midfielder (normal)

Mentality: Normal (11-12)
Creative freedom: Mixed (10-11)
Passing style: Mixed (8-10)
Closing down: Often (15)
Forward runs: Mixed
Run with ball: Mixed
Long shots: Often
Through balls: Mixed
Cross Ball: Rare

Central midfielder (offensive)

Mentality: Normal (13-15)
Creative freedom: Mixed (11-12)
Passing style: Mixed (10)
Closing down: Often (15)
Forward runs: Often
Run with ball: Often (If good at dribbling)
Long shots: Mixed
Through balls: Mixed
Cross Ball: Rare

Wingers

Mentality: Attacking (14-16)
Creative freedom: Mixed (12)
Passing style: Mixed (10)
Closing down: Often (16-18)
Forward runs: Often
Run with ball: Often
Long shots: Rare
Through balls: Rare
Cross Ball: Often

Striker

Mentality: Normal (13-14)
Creative freedom: Mixed (10-11)
Passing style: Short (5)
Closing down: Often (16-18)
Forward runs: Often
Run with ball: Mixed
Long shots: Rare
Through balls: Rare
Cross Ball: Rare


[/]Away tactic[/I]

For the away tactic i use about the same as above the only changes i do is to lower the mentality at the wingers, center midfielders, defensive midfielder. I also reduce forward runs and run with ball to mixed for the attacking midfielder and to rare for the defensive midfielder. One can also higher the closing down a bit for the fullbacks. And last thing the whole team should change passing style to a more direct passing style.

10. Adjusting the tactic during match

During a match i always use to change som small details depending on how the match looks like. I use to watch some parts of the game of it in full detail to get a feel what is going right and wrong. These things can be anything from changing mentality and other paramerters for a individiual or changing the team instuctions a little bit perhaps increase the width of play. Or if i notice that one of my winger have a hard time getting by a defending fullback, then i change to only play down the other flank. Or if a opposition defender have made a early foul on my winger and got a card for it, then i change to only play down that flank in hope he will comitt another foul and get his second yellow and get sent of.

11. Tips

Here are som tips that i have found useful for my 4-3-3 formation to change a game that aint going the way it should.

Changing the forward arrows on the wingers so they point into the box (as the pic below) is useful if you seem get around the flanks alot and delivers many crosses. In this case when the right winger in down at the corner flag and crosses the ball, the left winger will take a position at the left post and be ready in the cross goes over the striker and midfielder in the box. But the best of it is when the left winger crosses into the box, then the striker goes at the near post and the winger and the midfielder is at the far post. Have scored alot of late goals with my attacking midfielder and right winger this way.



[img=http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4629/433changeht4.jpg]

As i said in the beginning the 4-3-3 is a very flexible formation that is very easy to change to a new one during a match without need to substibute alot of players to get in players on the pitch that can play on the new position in the new formation you changed to. I will try to explain. You have all the players you need on the pitch to make it ultra offensive or ultra defensive. If i trail late in a game and must have a result, ill just move the offensive center midfielder (i always play a AMC or FC in that position in home games) into the AMC position and then move the defensive midfielder into his position on the midfield and i have a very offensive 4-5-1 formation. Or if you are in need of defending a lead and the opposition goes to the 4-2-4 formation to get a result, just move your wingers back from AML and AMR to ML and MR and you have a very defensive 4-5-1 formation.

Well this was all i had to say about my 4-3-3 formation. If anyone have any questions regarding the tactics, what type if players that are best for the different positions etc, feel free to ask. And if anyone have any comments or suggestion of improvment on the tactic i would gladly hear them. Cheers!
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Old 01-08-2007, 11:34 AM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #2
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How successful has it been for you mate?
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Old 01-08-2007, 12:51 PM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #3
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Well during the time i worked with the tactic to get it as i wanted, i managed Sunderland.

First season i won the Championship. If i remember right with 4 games left to go. But i wasn't pleased with the tactic, conceded to many simple goals when playing at home. But i think it is the Sunderland centerbacks they start with that are the one to blame. Dont think the club starts with a centerback that have above 12 in pace, is one that have it, rest of the centerbacks are under around 10 and below. And in this tactic the pace is important since you will get some counter attack's on you when playing home with the attacking version.

Second season i worked on improving the defending part without sacrificing to much of the attack. Season number two i finished 10 in EPL. No spectacular results that season lost against all good teams away, best result that season against a big club was a 1-1 draw against Liverpool.

The third season i was satisfied with the tactic as it was and i had bought two players that fitted in to the tactic perfektly. First game in PL was Chelsea at home, won with 3-1, used the defensive version of the tactic at home and was hopng to try to hold out for a draw since Chelsea is a massive team. But i counter attacked on them and had 2-0 lead then they did 2-1 on a set pice late in the game, and i did 3-1 at the end of the game. Third match of the season was Liverpool away and i got a 1-1 draw there. Later on during the season i won 1-0 home to Arsenal and got 0-0 away against Man Utd in the cup.

Now when the tactic is like i want it to be, I starded over with Sunderland in Championship again. This far into the season (10 games) im at first place in the leauge with W:6 D:3 L:1, have scored 19 goals and conceded just 6 goals, (atleast 3 from set pices). I think this is a good record since my two best wingers (Hysen and Lawrence) have been injured for 2 months and not done a game yet. And in this tactic the wingers is the second most importatnt position after the central midfielders.
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Old 01-08-2007, 01:05 PM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #4
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Cool, might give it a try.
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Old 01-08-2007, 01:07 PM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #5
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So is it accurate to describe your 433 as more similar to that of the 05/06 Chelsea vintage?


Ok i risk being OT here ... anybody can replicate Barca's version of 433 to any degree of success? I'm very interested to know about it...
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Old 01-08-2007, 01:15 PM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #6
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Similar formation to the one I use and I've found it very effective against the top clubs but not so hot against the lesser clubs.

Mine is pretty much setup like your defensive formation and I don't change it for lesser teams so I might set up a second one as per your attacking formation.

2 questions:-

1. What type of striker works best for this formation, do you need someone who's good in the air or quick and good on the ground?

2. Any chance of you posting/uploading these tactics so I can give them a go (and to save me a job!)

Cheers
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Old 01-08-2007, 02:46 PM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #7
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I m using similar tactic with quick tempo and narrow width. I ve won world cup with Spain since i started to use it. High closing down on wingers striker and midfielders really helps to get lots of possesions.

Try using man marking when opponent has two strikers. It helped me lot...

I ll post my tactics instructions if i got time so we can compare with yours.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:12 PM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #8
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I'm just posting to say a good post, seems like you put a lot of time and effort into this thread, something a lot of people could do with doing around here. I look forward to following this thread and any others you might do in future, nice work
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:48 PM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #9
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Great post! - I have not used the tactic but do appreciate the work that you have put in.

Its a clear and concise account - well outlined and easy to follow.

I do like to create my own (regardless of results) but if was ever looking to utlise another posters tactic as a template, Id definately give yours a go.

The team seems balanced, well drilled and I like the fact that you have put your all into it.

Again Fab post!!!
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Old 01-08-2007, 11:58 PM   My Creation of a 4-3-3 formation that could be used both home and away. Post #10
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:thup: A really well written guide(watch out Cleon )I have really struggled against the evil Liverpool 4231 untill i followed your ideas, i have now gained a very hard fought 2-2 draw against them(like winning the treble for me). I did use man marking on the fullbacks and also added bacl arrows on them as kept them exactly were i wanted them. The problem's i had were that i was trying to defend against them then you gave me the idea of why not attack them, this totally put them on the back foot and they switched to a standard 442, which i coped with really well. Will post up my squad and keep you informed how the season goes. Once again :thup: :thup: :thup:
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