retired_SisokSFT

If the AI's 4-2-4 is so excellent why has nobody adopted it themselves to use!!

Then once you score a couple of goals shore up the defence and time waste etc.

retired_skullking1971

Looking at it from a possitive point of view... i have changed to 4-2-4 in the last ten minutes and won games, should the A1 feel aggrevieved against me?

SinfulHedgehog

I do find the 4-2-4 a tad annoying at time. ALthough it isn't a unrealistic tactic, Brazil used to use it as a normal tactic, not when they wanted to get something out of the game. Anyway, I do think it is rather good. A way to possibly find out how it works would be to set up a friendly with a huge club, and you as a little club. This way you can see what you assistant does if he changes to 4-2-4, thus working out how it works.

retired_Damonica

that's a good idea.

the 4-2-4 is pretty easy to counter, but i don't have anything as yet in the toolbox for when i'm down a goal.

i will try this. some day. when i'm less lazy.

retired_crisly

I had a thought.

The AI gets it's tactics (well, formations anyway) from the CProgram Files\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2007\data\tactics folder. What if you replaced the 4-2-4.tac file in that folder with some other formation, say, a 4-4-2, but named it 4-2-4.tac? That way, when the AI went to switch to it's gay ass 4-2-4, a 4-4-2 would pop up instead. You would probably have to start a new game for that to work, and would definitely want to back up the 4-2-4.tac file before you went F'ing around with it.

retired_B-Scott

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could you elaborate on your system?

Viles

All you do is go defensive, make your fullbacks like your DCs (make sure there taller than there strikers) and hit them on the counter, with a tall striker and a quick one. Put the game on full match for the last few minutes so you can spot and make changes quickly. Its not rocket science.

You have to adapt to situations on FM, you can't make a tactic and leave it for a season and expect to win every game anymore.

retired_nashfine

Interesting

retired_prttylilthang45

Although I started this thread on the 4-2-4 - I think the problem runs a lot deeper than that but the 4-2-4 is just the extreme end of it.

Its basically when the AI needs a goal or goes on the offensive where the problem lies.

I can take a fairly mid level team to Man Utd with a defensive mind-set and if Man Utd play "normal" (which is still usually better than most teams All-Out attack), my team can perform quite well and usually limit them to 0 or 1 goal.

Yet take that team with the same solid defensive set up to the ground of a team at the bottom of the table you find yourself 2-0 down in 15 minutes because they start the game "with an offensive style of play" and are playing like Brazil.

The problem with FM is that one notch on a slider can make such a huge difference to how a team plays. Fortunately for the AI, it has pre-made tactics that have no doubt been run a million and one times through simulations to find what works best against what, to call upon at a whim .. sadly we dont.

I don't have a problem with teams attacking like headless chickens - but thats the point - they are running around like headless chickens ..

.. but those pre-made tactics ran through simulations unfortunately also find the very best balance between attack and defence - so they can run around like headless chickens (find a goal when they need one despite being dominated to hell for 85 minutes) and still have a defence as solid as the famed italians in the early 90's.

Again - if they were that good - what are they doing at the bottom of the league?

Too many intances reported by people suggest theres problems in the match engine and tactics ..

I've just played a game where again I've battered a team for 80 minutes - had 25 shots on goal, 18 on target, scored 1 goal and the opposition has 1-0-0 ... they switch to 4-2-4 (and despite me turning to my tactic to use against 4-2-4) and by the 90th minute they're had 8 shots, 3 on target and I've lost 3-1 .. (despite me having better strikers, better defenders and a much better keeper).

Funny tho - one of those goals was so far off-side it wasn't even close enough for the commentary to suggest it was close. It was just given - no questions asked - I couldn't even whinge about it after the game after I'd looked at it again 15 times to make sure something ridiculous hadn't happenned. 5 Yards offside - when the AI needs a goal - just given, without question .. smells a bit fishy ..

It really is pathetic at times ... yet we keep getting told "its your tactics you idiot" ..

80 minutes gone - 25 shots on goal, 18 on target (most one-on-ones) - nothing wrong with the tactics in that part yet can't score for jelly. Every manager in league would take that.

.. yet time and time again you get pegged back when they go 4-2-4 ..

And this is where the idea of "super-keeper" comes into it with people.

Apparently it doesn't exist - yet you sit and watch Gordon Banks/Peter Shilton/Petr Cech all rolled into one flinging himself about saving everything thats thrown at him and only conceding 1 goal in 18 on target - think in that game it was an own goal too - (despite him being the reserve keeper with a CA around 100 when you check afterwards) - yet your 174 rated keeper who is one of the best in the business has 3 shots to deal with and he just watches them go into the net.

.. makes you wonder why you bother playing a keeper in FM a lot of the times for all the good he did - might as well play an extra striker.

But the "superkeeper" isn't a specific thing - its just a general symptom of the over-riding problem. The AI needs to keep the score down or needs to get a goal - bingo, at your service sir ..

Whether its 'cheating' or a complete inbalance in the way the AI tactics are set up - there are too many times when the human player is at a disadvantage with it and feels cheated anyway.

Anyway, another rant over .. but to finish, people don't complain about these things because they want to win every game - they complain because they want the game to be realistic ..

A fat pub team turning into classic Brazil when they need a goal is not realistic and just causes frustration with people who start to believe they are being cheated and the results pre-determined .. some people see that as a challenge and fair enough - but sadly, as said, its not realistic.

retired_vdavis

weirdly enough I've not had a 4-2-4 goal scored against me in about 3 seasons, and if I have it's obviously not annoying enough for me to notice.