retired_venomm

Hello, and welcome to my thread on my current approach to in game tactics. I am a frequent visitor to this forum, and I have to say there are some amazing ready made tactics out there, and some fantastic guides to help people that might be struggling or wanting to improve their tactical knowledge in the game. I am not claiming that this thread will guarantee you success, as I simply haven’t had the time to test it with a great deal of different teams. Also, I am certainly not on the tactical level of some of the well known gurus that have extremely popular topics - so please bear with me. This is something I tried out of boredom (frustration is probably a more accurate word to describe how I felt at the time) and it happened to work for me. The purpose of this thread is just to see if this approach works for others, like I said before, I simply don’t have the time to test it myself at the moment. It is designed specifically with large teams in mind (reason explained in very last paragraph as to why this probably won’t work with small low division sides – if anyone has a solution to this please share it!)

Reason For Trying This
My main problem with a lot of tactics I have previously downloaded, is that the formation is set – and to get the best out of it, you need to have players that suit the positions, and if you don’t have them, you will most probably find yourself needing to buy them to give the tactic a chance of succeeding. It seemed to me that the obvious way around a problem like this would be to use the players already at your disposal, and model the tactic around them. I also wanted to find a way that I could have a tactic where player instructions very rarely have to be adjusted as I would be using the players strengths and trying to stay away from their weaknesses.


Preparation:
Step 1. Figure out your strongest possible line up – assistant reports, viewing players attributes, FMGenie Scout, whatever way you prefer to do this.
Step 2. Decide if you really need to buy new players – I do this by putting my strongest line up on the positions screen and see if any of the preset formations will allow them all to play on the pitch at once without being out of position. If they all fit in with one of the preset formations that has at least a 4 man defence, then that’s the formation I will use at the start of the game. I generally refuse to create my own shapes, mainly because I like to play traditional formations, but if you want to create your own style then that’s fine.

From here on, my approach is mostly mathematical. My main aim was to create individual player instructions for everyone in the team. But rather than doing this in a traditional way of how that position is best played, I wanted them that best reflect the individual player’s strengths and weaknesses, giving them freedom, but realising their limits. I shall now go on to describe how I set each area of the players individual instructions.


Sorting Out The Details
My theory was to consider all the attributes for each mentality setting that I thought were appropriate. Adding the total attribute figures out of 20 together, then dividing the total by the number of different attributes being taken into consideration. I shall include an example in creative freedom in-case this is not clearly enough explained. I shall miss out a couple of points as they can be better explained away from the rest.

Player Instructions:
Mentality – I will cover this right at the end.
Creative Freedom – Rooney Attributes - Creativity (16) + Decisions (14) + Anticipation (16) + Passing (15) + Composure (14)= Total of 75, Divide it by 5 (number of attributes included) = Creative freedom of 15.
So that’s basically how I do it. But on a side note to this, I only use this creative freedom approach on all of my midfielders and front men. I keep my defenders creative freedom pretty minimal at all times so they don’t start thinking they’re Ronaldinho or anything, I would also swap out the passing attribute for crossing on wingers.
Passing Style – Will come back to this in the summary.
Closing Down – Will come back to this in the summary.
Tackling – Tackling + Anticipation + Bravery + Concentration + Positioning + Decisions= Total, Divide by 6. If answer comes to below 10= Easy tackling, 11-15= Normal, 16-20=Hard.
Forward Runs – Pace + Acceleration + Stamina + Work Rate + Off The Ball= Total, Divide by 5. If answer comes to below 10=Rarely, 11-15=Mixed, 16-20=Often.
Runs With Ball – Dribbling + Creativity + Decisions + Pace + Acceleration= Total, Divide by 5. If answer comes to below 10= Rarely, 11-15= Mixed, 16-20= Often.
Long Shots – Long Shots + Technique + Composure + Decisions= Total, Divide by 4. If answer comes to below 10= Rarely, 11-15= Mixed, 16-20= Often.
Through Balls – Passing + Anticipation + Creativity + Decisions= Total, Divide by 4. If answer comes to below 10=Rarely, 11-15=Mixed, 16-20= Often.
Cross Ball – Crossing + Anticipation + Creativity + Decisions= Total, Divide by 4. If answer comes to below 10= Rarely, 11-15= Mixed, 16-20 = Often.
Cross From – I generally have wingers crossing from mixed and full backs crossing from deep.
Cross Aim – I have this on mixed unless I have a big target man, then I usually aim for him.
Swap Position – I generally don’t use this other than on my 2 MCs, unless I have 2 wingers that are naturals on both sides of the pitch and can use both feet. I will explain this in the summary.

Marking is a little different for me – usually I play zonal. I very rarely use man marking unless I’m extreme underdogs, or the opponents have a really annoying fast attacker such as Henry. In this case I usually do a quick sum of marking, anticipation, determination, concentration, decisions, positioning, work rate, acceleration, pace, strength and stamina to figure out which defender would be best suited to the role overall. This seems like a lot of things to consider, but man markers can really get dragged around if you’re trying to keep top class fast players at bay, so I like to know I have the right man for the job.

Free role and hold up ball I shall also ignore for the moment.

Summary
Firstly I will go over the pointers that I missed out. I would love to be able to post a huge chunk of team instructions/individual passing/individual closing down from wwfan’s “TT&F IV: New Strategies and Theories for '07” but I haven’t asked for or expect permission to do so, so I shall LINK to it instead for your reference. I can’t think of any possible way to explain these areas better than how they are presented in his thread, which helped me a lot whilst messing about with this approach. Following his guidelines for those areas worked very well for me whilst trying out this method.

Swap Position – As I said before I generally only use this on my 2 MCs and if I have 2 wingers that can play on either side and are 2 footed. The reason I try to include this where possible is because it seems that swapping can cause real confusion to the AI with a mathematical approach. This is basically down to the players having different attribute points, therefore their player instructions will be slightly different to each others (even though playing in the same position on the other side of the pitch) giving more variation to the play as the defenders will keep having to combat different things. This greatly reduces the need for tweaking if you aren’t creating.

Mentality – the big area I said that I would cover last. This is for a very simple reason. Throughout use of my tactic, I intend to play my strongest 11 players in every single game they are match fit for – even useless cup games. This naturally means that I am lazy! And don’t plan on adjusting too much in the individual instructions area (in fact I only ever do so if I have a player out injured, then I recalculate for the replacing player *I suggest making a note/screenshot of settings when you change them to save all the hassle of going through it again*). The big problem with this would be the differing situations when it comes to match odds/scout reports on how the opponents will play. Here is how I go about countering teams from the pre match odds/scout reports:

I save my tactic with all the personal/team instructions sorted out. I then create 6 versions of it, each with different mentality settings, again using wwfan’s rule of one method (explained in more detail in his thread LINK ). My idea of 6 variations is based on 6 potential odds/reports combinations: Favourite to win (yes or no) matched with opponents using either defensive, normal or attacking formations. I have mentality settings as follows (assuming using 4-4-2, adjust where necessary for other formations):

Expected to lose + attacking opponents = GK1, DC2, FB3, MC4, W5, FC6
Expected to lose + normal opponents = GK4, DC5, FB6, MC7, W8, FC9
Expected to lose + defensive opponents = GK7, DC8, FB9, MC10, W11, FC12
Expected to win + attacking opponents = GK9, DC10, FB11, MC12, W13, FC14
Expected to win + normal opponents = GK12, DC13, FB14, MC15, W16, FC17
Expected to win + defensive opponents = GK15, DC16, FB17, MC18, W19, FC20


And that’s it! If you read all of that… well done! You have a lot of patience. As I said before, I am not trying to post something that I know works amazingly well, I am more looking for constructive criticism from all of you kind folks. I have won leagues with it… but I admit, with big teams. It’s a shame I can’t just upload tactics that will work, as more or less every single save game created will have different attributes in different places for the same players.

My main goal is to create a set of tactics that plays to compliment my players strengths, as well as requiring VERY little tinkering (due to being based on individuality rather than more vague general instructions per position). The only factor that makes this awkward is the varying attributes from training effects/aging players. However unless they increase/decrease dramatically, most sliders may only need adjusting once or twice a season, and only by 1 notch most of the time. It may take a while to set it up initially, but in theory should require a lot less tinkering throughout a season as it is based on the individual and their style/good & bad points won’t change by large amounts.

I would love to hear how people have got on with this approach, all possible suggestions, weather you think I am not using the right attributes to get my average for a set player instruction, and anything else that could be considered! But I must also apologise in advance if there is a thread out there with an identical approach to this which I didn’t find whilst searching. Trust me I wouldn’t have gone to so much effort typing this out just to steal somebody else’s ideas. If this is the case please feel free to link your post as a reply or contact a mod about it and sort it out from there. I just wanted to present what I thought could be a fresh way of creating a tactic that isn’t currently a popular method and see what feedback/results it gets.


The one huge flaw (as stated at the beginning) is that for this to work in lower leagues, it would require some kind of quality increase formula. As attributes would be significantly lower in conference north/south squads, an average star players attributes would mathematically force everything to be on differing parts of a slider in comparison to a star player with the same qualities (just higher attributes) in a top team. A rough percentage to increase the results by, in relation to each divisions average current ability could correct this somewhat, but not in a completely accurate way. So this may be limited to larger sides after all, unless a brainy folk with a smashing idea can sort out this problem

Thanks for reading, I hope you found it to be an interesting idea rather than a load of boring mess that was a total waste of your time!

retired_boek73

whoa,what a post!looks interesting.I will try this approach on my own tactics.

retired_B-Scott

Thats a very long post and youve onbviously put a lot of effort into getting all that together, well done.

My question is, is there any evidence to suggest this works, you say you have won leagues with it but is there anything more specific to go on?

Well done anyway for trying something new which is always a good thing, whether it works or not.

retired_venomm

Well as I said before, it is very far from a perfect method at the moment. I'm not totally sure I'm using the best possible attributes to get my averages from at the moment. I have won the Premiership with Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool with this method (plus some random cups). Also setting it up at the start of the season once with Man Utd and then holidaying until july 1st with use current tactics and same line up wherever possible on assistant manager settings, who also won the league.

My main point of worry for it is that yes, I have only tested it with teams that you can argueably win the league in the first season with even if you don't have a sound understanding of tactics (which I am far from having, to be honest).

If by any chance there is anything worth using in it, even if it's just a small piece that is useful to only one other person, then it is worth the effort in my opinion. Plus the replies on where the tactic is failing/if it's doing ok will give me ideas of how I can improve it for myself (which in a bit of a selfish way, is one of the reasons I posted it here). This is the way I enjoy playing the game at the moment, not too much tinkering compared to some methods I have encountered, I was getting a bit fed up of that.

I think I reached a point with it now though where it was about as far as I could go with it on my own, and wanted to put it out there for other people to pick at and add their own ideas which I potentially hadn't thought of - there are bound to be flaws in there that I'm sure the gurus will make me very aware of, and each one ironed out is a potentially better tactic

retired_B-Scott

If I understand your theory correctly, essentially settings are based on players, not positions - so presumably one would have to adjust the settings each time you moved a new player into the side, or made a substitution, might this be a lot of work?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

retired_FaultyFate

Great post, Paulsgruff! :thup:

I approach the game in a similar way (trying to use strong sides of my players, buying only players that will fit to the current squad well (not mentally, but cover something I think is weak), adopt others' ideas from these forums, but making changes that imo should work better with my team. What I failed to do is to systemize my approach in any way (mathematical, theoretical, etc.) due to time constrain

I will test your ideas with my Sampdoria (not big, but decent team) and post update on my findings and ideas.

Thanks.

retired_venomm

Yes this is true. However, the way I use my substitues it doesn't really seem to effect the style of play. I probably should have included something on substitutes. I try and have versatile players that can play in preferably 3 roles. Such as a DLRC, an MLRC, AMC/FC, GK naturally and then maybe a DM (incase I get an additional defensive injury, one that can drop into the back 4 Essien style) or a youngster in a random position that I want to eventually break into the first team.

I usually don't make any changes until the 70th minute (unless I have a player that has a rating of 5 at half time... no matter who it is (other than GK), he comes off as most of the time they never seem to recover).

70th minute I take off the player with the lowest condition in the team (or if it is tied, the one with the lower rating). I then make another change between the 80th-85th minute (again the lowest condition player off - this is also a substitution to break up the play as opponents are probably playing 4-2-4 if they are losing). If I am really getting battered, I try to make my final change just after 90 minutes purely to waste time.

I always aim to use 2 substitutes, this leaves me 1 spare should I get an injury - and also the ability to time waste. Naturally I don't alter the formation usually, however I may switch to my most defensive mentality version to hold on at the end - so the players I bring on are as close to like for like as possible, so minimal changes are needed in player instructions. You can usually get away with no changes as they're only on for 20 minutes at most hopefully and mainly there to add energy to the team.

retired_FaultyFate

Paulsgruff

A few things I would slightly change in your approach to make it work better for the weaker team (but not for the lower league though, as I agree that since all players are weaker there, a different cut off points could be applied).

First, if player has one of the stats used in calculation below 10, I would substract 1 from the total result. If there are 2 such stats - substract 2 points, if more - get rid of player . For instance, when calculate CF and the result is 13, but player has composure 9, then I would set his CF at 12, etc.

Second, I would add First touch and off the ball in CF calculation. In my understanding, creativity should start from the first touch and shouldn't stop once player has passed the ball to someone else. (Though, I may think real life too much but I prefer to be a little bit more conservative).

I would apply Forward run results to wingers and MCs only. As for FB I would substruct 1 or 2 points (depending on opposition) from the results to make sure that FB have enough stats to return to his position. Imo DCs shouldn't make forward runs often even if they are exceptional (I am sure you had it mind and didn't write it since it is obvious )

Tackling. Imo it depends on opposition. If they have a great free kick taker and good fast strickers, I wouldn't allow my CD to tackle hard as it may gave additional chances to AI. Referee stats also play role.

Long shots. I would not allow my defenders and wingers to do it often as it limits supply to my strickers.

thanks.

retired_venomm

Thanks for the insightful suggestions kolobok. I have just started a save with Watford (naturally the words real life team in the Premiership this season) to play exactly how I wrote out my original post. This should be a fun experience to see how well my initial thinking works for a slightly smaller team. I will post a January progress and end of season table when I reach there over the next day or so.

I am basically doing this to go with my first post to show how the initial idea works out (if at all) with a smaller team. After this season is complete I will start looking at suggestions for where the holes are, starting with yours Thanks for the reply.

retired_FaultyFate

Good luck!

I wish I could play a half of a season in a day or two Time...

Anyway, I will give it a try and may be in a week or two i will be able to summarize my results (hope to play at least 20 games). Though something may pop up earlier.