retired_janay731

Hi all,

Altough I trully appreciate RoT (Rule of Two) approach and other theorem (by wwfan) where individual mentality are separated by 1 slider, my opinion and experience goes another way.

Expected to lose + attacking opponents = GK1, DC2, FB3, MC4, W5, FC6
Expected to lose + normal opponents = GK4, DC5, FB6, MC7, W8, FC9
Expected to lose + defensive opponents = GK7, DC8, FB9, MC10, W11, FC12
Expected to win + attacking opponents = GK9, DC10, FB11, MC12, W13, FC14
Expected to win + normal opponents = GK12, DC13, FB14, MC15, W16, FC17
Expected to win + defensive opponents = GK15, DC16, FB17, MC18, W19, FC20

So, what we have?

Mentality [1-20]

1 = Ultra Defensive
2 – 6 = Defensive (5 sliders)
7- 14 = Normal (8 sliders)
15 – 19 = Attacking (5 sliders)
20 = Ultra Attacking

Now, let´s suppose we use 4x4x2 diamon formation (I can add more insight for other tactic, if necessary). This formation is quite good to express my view because we can easily identify 5 lines: defense, defensive midfielder (DMC), side midfielders (ML/MC/MR), offensive midfielder (AML/AMC/AMR) and attack (FC/ST).

My theorem relies on this believe: individual mentality sliders should be set accordingly to each line or sector (defensive, midfield and attack). For now, just igone [1] and [20] ultra defensive/offensive.

# Defenders (RB/LB/CD – forget sweeper for now)

Defenders first job is to…defend. We all know WRB/WLB can perform forward runs and play as wings but that is nothing to do with individual mentality and if you want to play wide (both flanks) just use FwR settings or give farrows. Let´s keep going…I feel defenders should use, no matter what, defensive sliders as [2-6]. This way, when you choose slider [2] that means you expect your defenders to play more deeper. Instead, when you feel confident your team is much better, then set last defensive notch [6].

Midfield is another history because we have 3 different lines. So, I divide [7-14] in 3 parts:

# Defensive midfielder (DMC)

[7-8]
We all know DMC could help DC´s at center and normally is first player for the offensive transition (mixed/direct pass). My reason tells me is more benefic to set [7] when defending and set [8] in a more attacking approach. Obvioulsy you could manage this with other tools like Forward Runs, Run with Ball and Creativty (and forward arrows to next sector).

# Side midfielders (ML/MC/MR)

[9-12]
More options here because we could choose 4 different silders: [9] and [10] for a more precaution tactic and [11] and [12] for more dinamic/offensive system. If wanted, you could even set one MC with [10] while another you adjust mentality slider to [12].

# Offensive midfielder (AML/AMC/AMR)

[13-14]
It´s the opposite of DMC position, so you can recognize mathematical difference. Now, just a tip that can be adaptable to DMC: if you´re loosing and [14] is too low for an AMC, then you have 2 options: set FwR often or simply design forward arrow for FC/ST position. Results brilliant.

# Forwards/Strikers (FC/ST)

[15-19]
Solution here is adjusting two kind of players: pacey FC with , maybe, Target Man ST (heading, jumping, strenght). This way, you can decide for [15] for FC and [17] for ST(riker). Now, during game is you notice opponent is playing high defensive line, then be careful with offsides and change silders to [15] FC and [16] ST. If you´re dominating and other team is playing very deeper, then you can imput things as [17] FC and [19] ST.

Finally, here´s and example (4-4-2 Atletico Madrid):

Defensive Set:

GK – Leo Franco (I´ll write later about this specific position)
RB – Seitairids/Perea [4]
CD – Zé Castro [2]
CD – Pablo [2]
LB – PernÃ*a/Antonio López [4]
DMC – Costinha [7]
MR – Maxi RodrÃ*guez [9]
ML – Petrov [9]
AMC – Aguero [13]
FC/ST – Fernando Torres [15]
FC/ST – Mista [15]

Attacking Set:

GK – Leo Franco (I´ll write later about this specific position)
RB – Seitairids/Perea [6]
CD – Zé Castro [4]
CD – Pablo [4]
LB – PernÃ*a/Antonio López [6]
DMC – Costinha [8]
MR – Maxi RodrÃ*guez [12
ML – Petrov [12]
AMC – Aguero [14]
FC/ST – Fernando Torres [19]
FC/ST – Mista [19]

Just a final thinking: defenders should play more direct style, midfielders mixed and forwards short passing, but I need more time to test it.

Anyone tried this?

retired_venomm

I might have a play around with this idea later on where the positions vary from 1-20 mentality in one tactic. I'm not really sure what I expect to happen though to be honest. My main worry would be that certain positions are pushed further forward than you would like, leaving holes where they should be if you lose the ball. The idea of having a DMC to break up the play could help sort this out, but with his mentality on 7 and the AMCs on 13, it seems like there could be a fair bit of space left there extremely often. Hoever, it could be a nice idea if this isn't the case. I don't usually play a diamond so to be honest I don't really know how this works out anyway from personal experience.

I have been setting my tactics up in exactly this way for a while now, as demonstrated in my thread here.

I thought this approach was great for a while, but now I'm not so sure. Most big sides will always be odds favourite and most opponents will play defensive against them, which leaves you only really using one of the settings, maybe 2 if you play a better quality of side - which opponents will eventually find a counter for. A small club doesn't have this problem as much as they start off nearly always being odds to lose with attacking opponents and then it evolves as you get more successful.

So it will be interesting to see how your approach works out. In theory it looks ok, but as I said my main concern would be the possibility of players leaving huge gaps due to the differences in their mentality to the players behind them - leaving the attacking players playing very attacking and not considering coming back to help out as much, which a high quality well organised opponent may be able to rip to shreds.

I will have a play around using this style and see what happens though, nice idea

retired_janay731

Thanks for your reply paulsgruff. Any special conclusion about the approach or you didn´t play using this style?

Well, nowadays I don´t have much spare time to test it but I believe AI or the engineering/concept of the game consider instructions related to 3 sectors: defense, midfield and attack.

If you notice, even sliders are divided into three parts, with some exceptions, like passing (short, mixed, direct, long). Most of individual/team instructions divided into low/normal/high or rarely/mixed/often.

I understand your point of view when you said .

However, i played about 3/4 games with Atletico Madrid using this mentality set and game play was fluid and nice to watch. I even played extended highlights and full time to carefully observe if players are together when defending and when attacking. All others instructions (marking, closing down, forward runs, and so on)leaved default just to see mentality effects. Only thing I needed to take care was about passing and set accordingly this topic.

Conclusion is that aren´t much gaps between players and sectors. I believe this method have positive arguments because not only divided defense, midfield, attack but divided midfield into 3 parts (DMC-MC-AMC).

Just a final reflexion: I don´t see the point of giving more than [6] for a DC and less than [15] for a striker. Talking about defense, [2] is when you wanted to play very deep and [6] is when you control game versus weaker opponent. For my experience and that´s why I apologise this theorem, if you want to give even more attacking approach to your defenders (RB/LB/CD – forget sweeper for now), just (i) give foward runs mixed/often; (ii) design forward arrows and (iii) increase defensive line. Setting, for example, [8] to defenders or [12] for FC/ST will screw hard your team and fluidity of the game.

Cheers