retired_Mehman

I love football manager, it's a great game. FM 2007 is in my opinion the best yet, the changes to scouting make transfers much easier to do without cheating (ie fm scout). The match engine is becoming better and better. The training seems to work. The tactics, while they need a lot more feedback, are far less vulnerable to supertactics.

There's a lot of complaints about the matches in this one. Rightly or wrongly, people complain bitterly about the AI 'cheating' and that despite being an overwhelmingly better team, they still lose. I agree with both sides, that it perhaps happens too often, and that it should happen some of the time.

I think overwhelmingly the problems result from the frankly idiotic way the match engine interprets 4-2-4, which we all know is the AI's favourite way of trying to get a goal back. I know there are a few ways to deal with it, and I use those when I realise the AI's changed to the formation. However, I really think that we shouldn't need to use such specific tactics to defeat a 4-2-4. It should be one of the most defensively vulnerable tactics ever, yet somehow the AI defense seems better whilst playing it.

It really came to a head for me today when reading played 4-2-4 <i>the entire game</i>. Not only did they not get punished for leaving themselves woefully exposed at the back by my more conservative, counter attacking tactic, they destroyed me. This, a team 17th in the league on a run of 6 successive defeats. As soon as they changed to 4-2-4, they became godlike. I was 4-1 down with 75 minutes to go. I changed to my own 4-2-4, just for the hell of it.

I drew 4-4. wtf? I really don't understand how this tactic which is probably the most likely to consign you to a 6-0 drubbing in real life is interpreted as tactical genius by the FM engine. Any top-half team wouldn't need much of a change of tactic to destroy the midfield-less team.

I think a lot of the problems with balance in the match engine are because the AI calculates that this is the easiest way to win. It really shouldn't be and I can understand the way people feel about AI cheating. They aren't cheating though. They're exploiting a rather major flaw in the tactical system - that a tactic that most human players would instinctively think is suicidal and never going to work is actually one of the most effective.

I'd be very interested to see if the effectiveness (or at least vulnerability) of 4-2-4 was changed in the engine, whether this would solve a lot of the issues people have been having. At the moment the engine seems biased towards the lesser teams that pull this one out of their bag, which may account for the unnaturally large number of defeats by the top sides against the very worst (as it seems the bottom sides doing very badly resort to this and succeed when their poor tactic and poor morale should mean they get whipped.)

I have no problem with lower teams winning -as they fairly regularly do, a few times a season - by shutting up shop and playing counter attacking, defensive formations and getting lucky. But the fact that the AI can switch to 4-2-4 and suddenly become gods is really beginning to irk me.

retired_bpx667

another thing i find strange is that the AI isnt even that cleaver when it come to using the 424. i played pompy in a premeiership game and they switch to a 424 after 80 mins when i was leading 2-0, i went on to win 2-1, the next game against arsenal i was 2-0 up then they switch to a 424 after abaout 75 mins, i lost 4-3. then i played roma in the second leg, where i was at home, i went 2-0 up in the first half making it 3-1 on aggraget and they never switched to a 424.

if anything i would have though teams would use 424 in cup matches rather than in a premiership game, after all what did roma have to lose, where as pompy in the premiership could have lost a loyt of goals denting their goal difference.

honestly how often do premiership games (especially in mid season) end where one team is all out attcking with a 424 and the other team sits back and lets it happen. its more of a cup/desperatly important game where this happens. and if you look at the chanpions league final its also possible for the other team to set on the ball more and snuff out the desperate team.

i dont think the AI using it is unrealitic, its just how often they use it (and the types of games they use it in) and how effective it always seems to be thats a problem.

retired_Mehman

definitely roo. It's not that they shouldn't use it, just that there should be far greater consequences for using it against better teams. A poor team that uses 4-2-4 against someone much better should be far more exposed. At the moment it seems the AI is close to guaranteed goals when it goes to this tactic. It should be a little harder to score with a 4-2-4 and far far far easier for the other team to break and punish them.

My problem isn't that the tactic exists, but that the team using seems to suddenly play incredibly, rather than what it should be - pure desperation.

retired_Mehman

case in point: playing Wigan, who are 16th. I'm one nil up and dominating but they snag a lucky goal and it's 1-1- with ten minutes left. In real life, Wigan would be likely to be very happy to get a point off my high flying spurs team. Instead, they go to 4-2-4 and go all out. They don't score, but it's silly that they tried it away from home - the 1 point should be far more important.

retired_bpx667

totally agree, tbh not many teams would go for a 424 away from home, yes they may make their winger more attacking (if its a big team against a low placed team), but not to make it a 424, its just to risky. in this you could lose the piont you have which is better than no points, which away from home is good.