retired_noor81

(curse not being able to edit)

The post above should read "Now translate that scenario to FM and... what?"

retired_FaultyFate

Yeah, media comments are probably weakest part of the game. Recently I lost a game and got comment like "... kolobok's decision to switch from 4-1-3-2 to 4-1-3-2 was wrong". I did not change tactic at all and AI knows yet makes funny comment! Did AI mean that I should have changed the tactic? Or it is just a comment to make a comment. i have no clue.
Sometimes I see "Player A draws the plaudits" while this player is injured and has not played for 2 months. So I agree, feedback should provide at least some ideas what was wrong.

retired_Dexter

This is an interesting topic. I would personally consider the tactical interface far and away the worst aspect of the game. It is far too ambiguous and rigid - I don't want to spend hours guessing what slider settings to use if I want my team to break quickly in counterattacking situations, but play a quick one-touch passing game with plenty of off the ball movement when the other team is defending in numbers. I would guess that such instructions are impossible to implement in the current interface (due to the lack of ability to give differing instructions for different in-game situations). For example, if I set up my tactic to play short passing, at a medium to quick tempo, those tactical instructions apply in every situation my players face - whether it is a packed defense (where those are the instructions I want) or a defense caught up-field (in which case, I want the ball moved down the field as quickly and directly as possible.

Additionally, it is very difficult to see how tactical decisions apply to in-game actions. If my defenders are taking too much time on the ball, and getting caught out by opposing strikers, I want to be told that they are, and then be able to simply tell them to get the ball away quicker and for my defensive midfielder to track back and provide an outlet if he sees the defense under pressure (instead of tinkering with the mentality, passing and creative freedom settings of five different players, guessing what settings will mimic the instructions I want). I want to be able to tell my team to close out a game by keeping possession of the ball in the defense, and to pass the ball back out if put under pressure, instead of running into the corner flag and invariably losing possession.

areta is god's half-time feedback options are a good idea. Feedback like this should be present throughout the game. It is too difficult, otherwise, to look at a 2-D match where players are represented simply as circles and figure out what is wrong.

I would also like to see tactical implementation be done like this: we should be given a huge list of things we can tell out team and individual players to do - play quick passing, play slow passing, tackle hard in the midfield, have wingers cut it, have wingers track back, run at defenses etc. This list would encompass every conceivable thing a manager could tell his team/players during the course of a game. These clear-cut instructions would them translate into the particular slider settings that would implement them (we wouldn't need to actually see these settings, however). SI could also have the various patches for the game add various user-requested instructions that SI didn't think about initially. This is the best way I can see to eliminate the tactical ambiguity in the current game.

I would also like to add - for wwfan - I am extremely impressed with your recent theories thread. I built new tactics up around these frameworks (playing as Man Utd in 2010) and in 19 games with those tactics I have won 16, drawn 2 and lost 1, scoring 40 and conceding 7. Great insight.

retired_litlwhich

Well, NorthernAce just got it spot on I think. The second-to-last paragraph about implementing player instructions sounds brilliant to me and would make tactics so much easier and less of a hassle. It would also bring back a lot of people who stopped playing FM due to the complexity of it all.

You should get that idea off to SI mate, superb thinking

retired_noor81

Agreed. One thing that recently occurred to me as I was thinking how it could be possible to 'tweak less but still tweak', as to add 'Conditionals' to tactics.

That is, tactics that should allow automatic changes and variety within one particular formation or framework according to user-defined instructions. Sounds more complicated than it could really be.

For example, I could come up with the basic, flat 4-4-2, set up a few instructions according to how I want things, and then move on to set up the Conditionals. It can be made easy to understand with just a couple of fields to touch and "IF/THEN" statements.

i.e.: IF "Opposition plays possession" THEN "Switch Pressing to Often".
IF "Opposition presses defenders" THEN "DM Fall back to provide passing option"
IF "Opposition wingers play long farrowed" THEN "Switch Fullback/Wingback Forward Runs to Rarely"

... and so on. You would setup up what tweaks you wish at the beginning, when building the tactic, and it effectively will integrate itself to become 'the way your team plays'. Instead of having to stop and tweak sliders every 20 minutes to accomplish the same thing.

retired_noor81

Agreed as well, northernace. I proposed something very similar in another thread like this one.

Something like this...



... instead of the sliders. Spot on, northernace. :thup:

retired_rayrhi

northernace: I suggested something like this a while ago. I think it's a tremendous concept. It's basically the same thing as what you said, but I had the idea that there could be position sensitive boxes for each player that do not require any tweaking. For example, you select your fullback and there are numerous options relative to that position. For example:
– Overlap winger
– Play into channel
– Never go forward
– Play it to the target man's head (not possible since there is only a team selection for this, not individual)
– Tuck in when we lose the ball

Or for a centre midfielder:
– Sit in front of the back four
– Spread it wide. (it's not possible to have just one player getting it wide due to 'play ball down flanks' being the only option at the minute and it's a team option.
– Shoot on sight
– Play in behind the strikers

All of these things are very specific and separated from the rest of the team options. You have to remember that football is a simple 'team' game that looks so complex because a number of individuals perform 'simple' instructions. Every player has a specific and distinguished role in a team. In FM, it's not (at least, clearly) possible to implement simple, effective instructions. I mean, if I want to make my fullback overlap a winger in FM what should I do? Make forward runs? Play attacking mentality? Have a forward arrow? Play really wide? All of these things? I DON'T KNOW! Just give me a box saying overlap the winger and let the slider calculation change appropriately and keep it hidden.

retired_rayrhi

I wish I would have checked the thread earlier, Chand. You would have saved me a lot of time typing. This image shows exactly what I mean.

Then, for team instructions you could still have a slider system but with much less options. For example, passing. Short, mixed, direct, or long. How on earth are ther 20 degrees for passing a ball? And for closing down you wither do or you don't. There should be these options:
– Close down when ball hits your half
– Close down when opposition winger receives ball
– Sit deep on area. (Maybe this would solve def line problems)

At the minute, there are far too many degrees that the slider can hit. We need it simplified. Not dumbed down, SIMPLIFIED. Football is a simple game.

retired_litlwhich

Some very good posts again, that image is exactly what i'd like to see in FM 08. With the added options that Chand and Arteta are saying too. Like you say Arteta, football is a simple game ... so simplify the settings and make it more workable.

This thread is great, gives me hope of what FM could (and should) become. But on the other hand, are any of these ideas realistically going to happen? Have SI shown any signs of getting rid of sliders and using the ideas mentioned in here?

retired_rayrhi

I am not sure TBH. I have not the first idea about computer programming, but the least they could do is 'translate' simplified instructions to automatically change the sliders.