retired_dellydoolittle

I know what I will write now might not have too much with your thread Dayle. just want to point what I saw in my games, becouse a lot people talk about how you should change your passing style to AI...

what I could see is that you wont see too much of direct passing when playing in top leagues (look at how many times AIs strikers went for a header). mangers passing is a TANDENCY to pass shorter or longer and there is a BIG difference when you set your passing to 1 notch or to 6n of short passing, esp when using a lot of creative freedom and quicker tempo.

these passing games (on 07) suprised me in positive manner. IRE top league teams dont play short when:

1. long passes due to clearances and closing down
2. in every team good passers have enogh freedom to play long passes/when it is enough space to succed with long pass (why not?)
3. playing counter attacking football- 1 quick pass lounches a CA
4. using advantage of powerful forwards by skiping the midfield (using target man)
5. some teams play long balls to their target man when need to score in last minutes of the game
6. really big differences in quality of teams, but then we come to point 3

so I beleive that basicly direct football, is really rare on top european scene

retired_kellyk

Wanted to start a thread..decided to drop this here instead

I know there are loads of people out there who don't care too much about scout reports. Well I do, in as far as preparing my team is concerned.

A good scout
A good scout makes some difference to the game, especially one who has 15 or more in tactical knowledge and 15 or more in judging player ability. Prior to any match their job is to scout out the opposition and come back to me. What they say help me with my gameplan.

The first thing I look out for is the type of attack. Usually scout reports break attacks down to mixed or direct. There are some scout reports that actually tell you about the tempo too. One other thing people need to realise is that the AI doesn't play with 1 442 formation. Even if the scout tells me they play with a 442 I need to prepare myself..more on that later. The scout will also hint at where the focal dangers are..the opposition may employ a fast paced attack or they could be slow with some heavy play coming from midfield.

Match prep
Ok good the scout has now told me the team plays a defensive 442 and has fast pacey attackers and a hardworking midfield and they play a mixed attack. Now that's the worst form of information I need, so the next step is to do some background checks on the AI manager.

1. Find out his motivational ratings
2. Find out his tactical knowledge
3. Watch a relevant home/away match

All three are important. (1) is important because it warns me ahead of time whether the chap is going to fire up his players before or during a match. This is especially important in derby or critical grudge matches. In situations like this I never make any comments leading up to a game as this could swing morale one way or the other. Before a match if its a derby I will always tell my players to "do it for the fans"; if they are playing well and are not penetrating much I will encourage them and I will always remind them to do it for the fans. The danger in scolding them is great, derby matches can turn around very badly especially if you are facing a good AI manager. If the AI manager is not good at motivating, I generally turn the screw. If my players are playing well and leading, I sometimes say nothing to the 7s but I will say pleased to the 8s and encourage those with Vgood ratings and below.

If I am not doing well and have very good morales and above who are 6 and below I will rain hell-fire down on them. You need to be prepared, managers with high motivational are hard to beat especially those who have relegation to worry about. These managers will use morale to good effect. So make sure your players are not unduly criticised by you leading into a match.

(2) Is very important for me, especially in big matches. When a manager has a high rating, there is a good chance he will have more than 1 442 in his bag. The AI makes a lot of changes to its tactics in game. These changes go from changes in mentality or to markings, closing down and defensive lines. The higher the attribute for a manager the more likely more of these changes will take place. Sometimes a low attribute shows when the manager switches from an attacking formation down a defensive one when a goal is let in. High attribute managers sometimes take a 442 and change it to a 424. So be wary of them.

(3)Watching a match is important, especially as part of your preparations. Things you want to see are:

1. How are goals scored
2. How does the AI change things..look for defensive line changes, closing down, whether they are tight marking. How high do the challenges happen.

There are loads of people here who can't spot defensive line changes, I will probably do an indepth look at it when FM2008 is launched to see if my observations are still the same.

Once again these were my thoughts and should be treated as such..its just one of the ways I play.

retired_slayerbing

Thanks for that Rashidi :thup:

retired_kellyk

One thing about odds though, personally and this has been mentioned a couple of times between the testers is that odds sometimes aren't a good indication of the sides quality. For example a team that has been on a good winning run at home comes up against a quality side like United and the odds show that W.Ham have a better chance to take all the points against United.

Odds and match ratings have come under a lot of criticism when the match engine is being tested and I'm one of the biggest critics who favours a more rigorous system to determine the odds. Odds need to be balanced with several other factors:

1. Morale
2. League position vs Media prediction
3. Injuries in a team
4. Historical position of the team..ie..the team has consistently been a title contender, and finds itself in the bottom 3 after 5 matches. Sometimes the odds come out favoring the other team in home matches, which I find really "odd"
5. AI manager quality
6. Team quality
7. Formation used
8. Home record vs opp teams Away Record
9. Match played in question...odds for cup games need to reflect reality

At the end of it all..odds need to be taken into context, they cannot and must never be the sole basis for determining how you should prepare for the match. They just happen to be one of the factors you consider.

My approach is still the same approach I used since we called the game CM, which is to do my own scouting. I spend more time listing out the potential dangers of an opposite team and how they have played in a similar situation.

retired_abjanicki

Thanks for starting this great thread Dayle, it's great to see how many different approaches can all seem to work.

One thing I am sceptical of is the counter your opposition theory. My reason for this is that whilst you may be countering them, they are also countering you. I'd love it for someone to prove me wrong but if you are playing a quick, direct team, surely they want you to play short and slow? Surely then you will gradually move forward and they will then kill you on the break.

Those are my thoughts fell free to agree or disagree.

retired_mydandelyon

UNITED!!! (Booooooo!!!!!)

A quick note on playing counter-attacking teams:

DISCLAIMER: The information I am about to relay is a tried & tested theory that has worked for many months in my game-world and has improved my enjoyment of FM no end. If you try it, and it doesn't work for you, I don't want any hate mail. I'm currently in a fragile state since I can't shake the feeling that determinism is indeed truth, so I don't need any insults

I was often losing or drawing games at home that I felt I should win quite easily. Admittedly, I was losing faith in the game until I decided to think about it logically:

What did I know about the AI?
It was VERY effective at countering me

What did this mean?
That it was exposing SOME flaw in my system. Keep in mind that it was happening with most teams I was playing with so a clear pattern was emerging

Was I dominating most home games?
Absolutely. I would dominate possession 60%-40%, out-shoot my opponents dramatically, and lose goals to 1 or 2 damn shots. I was very bitter let me tell you.

Do I think this is fair/realistic?
Not at all due to the frequency this was occurring, but: it's a computer program and the only way the AI can beat you is to algorithmically calculate the flaws in your tactical application. Okay, it seems a little 'below-the-belt' the way it's represented, but if you can ignore what you see in the highlights (I know it's hard) and convince yourself that it's just the way the code works, you should be able to directly prolong the life-span of your mouse and/or monitor. In short, you have to be punished to some extent or you will win every game.

So I thought about it and I realised that my tactic was far too attacking. And this leads me to my main point. I think that the human user is FAR too attacking at home, which inevitably leads to the AI counter attack. As a rule now, I NEVER have my FBs on forward runs as I constantly like to have a bank of four back at all times. Just this simple rule has made a massive difference in my home performances and I barely even lose a goal to the dreaded 4-2-4. Of course, my tactical application is patient throughout, and I assume it's not just the full-back settings that have steered me to success, but I don't want to elaborate any more since this is not the place and I don't want to 'poison' Dayle's thread and take it off-topic too much.

It just goes to show that solutions to your flaws can actually be discovered with a bit of logical thinking. Unfortunately, the answer is not always clear due to a poorly represented match-engine, but it can be done if you are strong enough to ignore the match-engine. Never be afraid to try new things. Be flexible in your tactical creation, and the more talent you have at your disposal, the more adventurous you can be.

aby

Dayle,

Great thread and great idea. I am wondering when you are going to compile into the article you suggested and if you have noticed any changes in 08 that warrant consideration.

Heywood

retired_slayerbing

Hi mate, unbelievably I just got the game today so might take a week or so to have a play about with it. I'm also thinking about waiting to see what effect the patch will have.

papz

Thanks for you comments. With respect though there is a discernable difference betweent the game and real life. Using the same tactic against everyone on the game is doomed to failure.

Even in real life I suspect most sides flexible enough to change to meet certain challenges. </BLOCKQUOTE>

not necessarily!

i have a tactic that has won all 7 cups in 1 season with not one tweak, in the prem in 09/10 season. so it can be done! although on inspection, the tac is so flawed its untrue. yet it works! (even with lesser teams!)

on the odds! i use them for the purpose of teamtalks as its a good indicator of how to approach the game! as you say if your fav you can go and attack them from the start if not then a take it easy approach is better! but then again, i think i'm the only one who uses teamtalks! ...arent i...?

ps. is not 2. a contradiction? </BLOCKQUOTE>

What tactic did u use bob? Mind uploading it?

firefighterhilf

I thought you'd gone into hiding Dayle